Performance Center PPC 9 6"

[CALREB]

I was wondering if there was any discussion of the PPC longslide that sold a few weeks ago (on the big auction site) for over $9500.00 . I had been sick a while and didnt keep up on the normal searches I do to pass time. Certainly was a shock to me as its several thousand more than I had seen any 3rd gen type go for previously P/C or not. I was going to keep an eye out to see if it stays sold.
I looked for any mention of it here and couldnt find any. Always like to hear any additional info someone might know. Hopefully some one here made the sale...

 

[Old_Cop]

That bid seems exorbitant to me, but its the old wants versus needs.

 

[Sevens]

We had one a year or maybe two years back go for over $12,000 and then the winning bidder actually posted about it here in the forum. He didn’t say a whole lot, said something along the lines of “I have one and my wife really wanted another for herself so, she gets one…”, but this is going by memory.

The thread exists here somewhere.

 

[CALREB]

Yikes 12gs thats uhhh , I wont say insane, lets say eccentric, I guess thats insane with a lot of money. When my wife stopped competition shooting referred to as BH (Before Horses) she had me sell hers. You could still get them, just had to wait so she was glad to get exactly what she paid for it 1100. Sold to a fellow shooter who was tickled to get it. I had one that was only a back-up gun as I was shooting 1911 from Springfield at the time. So didnt think anything about selling it DUH!!! I remembered one going for 7 or something and since then have seen them sit for 4 or so I thought. Still beats a 8 grand glock even if John Wick uses one. So what do I know.

 

[4T5GUY]

I actually took a picture of that $12,000 + when it sold.

I had a personal interest in it before it went to GB and was blown away with the price realized. There was speculation that it was a “shill” bid but I contacted the seller and yep it was real. I actually even contacted the buyer also.

The same buyer of the 6” PPC also bought a really special Bren Ten for $28,000 the same night. Also from Keystone.

Jim

 

[CALREB]

OH I remember that 952, It was one with 2 tone polished set up that there were only a few made. Still yikes. Well actually with current prices/bids seen on other stuff its not that far out of line.

I wonder if there are any real numbers on 6" PPCs. Most people already had a 5" that they could shoot Distinguished and Open class with so were not really interested. I mean there was a bit of sense to it. Was the advantage of shooting an inch longer gun in the open, then changing guns to shoot a 5" in the distinguished match, worth the cost and trouble of buying another gun and keeping it sighted in etc. It wasnt for several years that the rules were changed to allow 6" guns for the distinguished match. Then guys were frantic for a longslide PPC, but they were hard to come by. S/W may have even stopped making them by then in favor of the 952, which could be sold to civilians, a much larger market.
Also most competitors wanting a 6" gun had switched to a 1911, before the PPC longslides came out. So had no interest in a P/C gun. I only bought a couple because, 1 for the wife to shoot and another for a back-up 6" if my 1911 went belly-up. PPC9s were way cheaper than a Springfield Custom 1911 PPC.

Remember there is also the cost of magazines involved. You need 25 at least. Loading magazines between the stages of fire really doesnt help your score. There isnt much time and changing your target, wiping your face, sipping water, blackening your sights, catching your breath and making sure you are loading 6 rounds in each mag isnt a good recipe for relaxing. If you already had a S/W and the mags it was fine. Buy a 6" and keep the 5" for a back-up, if not another 600 or so at least.
Just some reasons why the market for the PPC 9 longslide wasnt nearly as great as the 5" model. Dont know about the European market.
Curious as to when last PPC was made versus the first 952. If there was much of an overlap. Would be interesting, something to look up in the book this afternoon, since its already 103 outside.

 

[Sevens]

Oh heck, I confused two different high dollar 6-inch long slide PC Limited guns. We were talking PPC-9 but the $12,000+ sale was the Ellett Brothers one of hmmmm.... 14 made? Or less?

 

[Sevens]

Just some reasons why the market for the PPC 9 longslide wasnt nearly as great as the 5" model. Dont know about the European market.
Curious as to when last PPC was made versus the first 952. If there was much of an overlap. Would be interesting, something to look up in the book this afternoon, since its already 103 outside.

This is a compelling discussion point. I believe there was some overlap as the very first ever 952 pistols, the no-dash model made to 400 units was a 2000 year pistol, exclusive to Bangers Distributors. The very last of the 952-2 pistols ran as late as maybe 2010, these had an odd serial prefix that was UBZ, iirc, and not the DAB prefix of the bulk of the 952-2 guns.

Where inside that space were the PPC-9's made? I'm not sure, but they were definitely made in the mid-1990's and perhaps later.

 

[CALREB]

Sevens I dont think it matters. That money for any P/C gun unless the first one or last one is out there. I guess the color scheme makes it rarer for collectors but doesnt mean that much to shooters. If they are still making 952s couldnt you order one polished up like you want or doesnt S/W do that kind of stuff anymore.
I bought a 5" PPC 9 newer version serial number PPC-1000( I thought it was 1500 till I looked at it one day) from a Iowa State Trooper in 2006 at the Nationals. He told me that S/W PC had the gun in their safe and only sold it to him because he was the middle man for a large sale of S/W ARs to the ISP. They told him they had no more PPCs and did not know if they were making any more. I have no idea if that is true or not. I wanted the gun to fill out the PPC set of 3. He was selling it for a very good price because he wanted to put a down payment on a Springfield PPC 6" while they were at the Nationals.

 

[Sevens]

In the realm of collectible handguns, it matters, it more than matters, as to collectibility and collectible value, what was available as new and original from the factory are literally precisely where the value lies for something of that nature.

If I'm not being clear, let me say it this way:

If S&W offered a PPC-9 chambered in .38 Super and it was a very short run but you could, at one time, order it from them exactly as described, a high condition example of that would be worth a silly TON of money in the collectible gun market.

However... they did not. It does not exist. Now if you took a PPC-9 and with skill and patience and tools, you re-chambered it to .38 Super, that would be neat but on the collectible gun market, all you've done is attacked it's value.

In your post there are a couple points to address:

Sevens I dont think it matters. That money for any P/C gun unless the first one or last one is out there. I guess the color scheme makes it rarer for collectors but doesnt mean that much to shooters.

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago, shooters and competitors drove the market for these guns, but that is no longer relevant here in the year 2022. There exists nearly no shooter that's going to pay market ($4,500 to $8,500) for a 6-inch long slide S&W PC gun, or far beyond $8,500 for the 1-of-14 or 1-of-17 exclusive two-tone blackened 6-inch 952-2.

The only folks who will pay that kind of money (other than one random outlier who goes to bed at 11pm and has his wife stay up until 2am bidding in $25 increments) (yes, specifically that happened) (pay eight grand for a pistol they intend to whack steel with) are folks who are chasing it because it is elite, rare and valuable.

If they are still making 952s couldnt you order one polished up like you want or doesnt S/W do that kind of stuff anymore.

They are so very much not making anything in the hemisphere of 952's anymore. The folks that work there don't even recognize a 952, you'd be lucky to have them shuffle the deck and find one person at work on a given day who knows what a 952 even is (or was) and they certainly have no plans and no skill on staff to produce them ever again.

Pretty sure they will not do tricky finishes to a short-run hand fitted pistol from 12-30 years ago when the real Performance Center existed.

Time and Smith & Wesson has moved on. These guns have a following because they are elite and came from a very short period of absolute greatness.

952's, 845's, 3566 Limited and PPC-9's have as much relationship to S&W today as a Bren Ten. I mean to say... zero.

The only thing a PPC-9 has in common with S&W in the year 2022 is the name emblazoned on it. There is no relationship between these guns and the current company. It's exactly like I said in another recent thread, calling up Springfield and talking to S&W now about a 952 is like stopping at your local Chevrolet dealer to ask them about a 1969 COPO Camaro. You've got just as much chance of success if you ask that car dealership about Eli Whitney's cotton gin. They have no relationship to a COPO Camaro.

 

[CALREB]

I used to have a lot of dealings with S/W and the P/C years ago. Since probably 2003 or 4 not much. Stayed in touch with some friends there. Sent a gun or two back for barrel switch or something I wasnt comfortable to do. Then had to deal with the regular S/W folks when the M&P was adopted, but no P/C people. I know most if not all have moved on. Its really sad and hard for me to think how the P/C has changed. Im very sure you are so right, when I see the plastic P/C guns I always shake my head. So Im sure you are very correct, I have just lost touch.

Some weeks ago I was talking with SmithNut and told him that I was just a guy who was in the right spot, at the right time, with the right people when the 3rd gen type P/C guns were being made. We worked the P/C booth at Shotshow and ate many a dinner on S/W, some as business but mostly as friends. They did business with lots of folks. It was a very fun time for me as a gun guy. I luckily held on to a few P/C guns even after I stopped shooting them in competition. I would have kept shooting them but when you are on a team, you have to be a team player so switched to Springfield 1911s. I did carry a DPA 5906 in uniform and a 5906 compact as an EDC.

I never thought as a collector. Almost all of my guns in 9mm and 38 have seen a lot of rounds. I did accumulate a few that never got shot, but didnt pay much attention to their value or what might make them collectable. Maybe why I sold a NIB Recon 9 in case and packing box for 800 to a friend and fellow shooter right before I retired, because he couldnt find one in CA. But Hey Im learning!!!!
I liked your comparisons for the now days P/C if you can call it that.
People here should appreciate that you call it like it is and not to get their hopes up too much. Before I retired I would come back after vacation and there would be a pile of revolvers on my bench. The younger guys I worked with were absolutely great and talented. But they didnt work on revolvers enough to retain or experience much of what I had. Also true of 3rd gen S/Ws to a lesser extent. I bet the P/C is the same way today. Plastic guns maybe 1911s ok, not much else.

Sold the Recon, the 4566 melonite and the 4513. Added a CHP 40 Tactical, and a couple of the early 9mm M&P PC guns. The M&Ps were an issue gun, so we got a unit buy as instructors. Saved the city issuing us one to teach with. Cheap skates!!!

 

[cherrypointmarine]

I'm lucky to have a friend here on the forum that was a lot like you Calreb . He was in the middle of it when the PC guns came on line , and he was an LEO so he had the letterhead to get the good stuff . I have more than a few PC guns thanks to him , I otherwise would have never even seen some of them .

Among them I can count a 9Recon , 40Recon , IDPA 4 & 5in all of which are NIB . I really enjoy talking to him and am amazed at the number of PC guns that have traveled through his hands . One of which is a 6in PPC which he sold to another member here who proceeded to sell it at a healthy premium .

As stated , it's a sad day that these guns will never be built again . Those of us that own and shoot them hold them in high esteem . I shoot every Tuesday and I always take either my 945 or 845 and my 40Comp . Whenever I let someone new shoot them the smile on their face tells the story .

 

[Sevens]

I think if we had the time and energy to classify the different folks who have a current interest in the real PC Limited semiautomatic pistols, we could find a wide array of groups.

Active on this forum currently, I don’t think we have many like you, Calreb, real-deal competition shooters who literally used these guns back when they were made and used them specifically what the PC intended for them to do.

Myself, I was figuring out a career, a marriage and raising children in the early 90’s through the mid-2000’s. Shooting at that time was a rare hobby pushed to the back burner.

These days I shoot a little less than 10 years ago but a helluva lot more than I did 25 years ago when these guns were a contender in competition circles.

I grew up a S&W revolver guy. S&W pistols only barely captured my attention. That changed radically back around 2010 or so, when the Performance Center was breathing it’s last gasps of air.

It’s interesting when we talk about the prices/values of some of these pistols. Consider the 845 for example. MSRP of this was $1,500 in 1995. At the same time, a 4556TSW ran somewhere close to $900. In 1993, the very last of the Model 52 guns were $908 MSRP.

So an 845 was 1.5x of any other S&W semiauto available at the time. Now? Prices varies, and the package offered and it’s completeness and condition also varies, but $3,000 for a top condition and complete Model 845 is about right.

If I could buy a new 845 right now for 1.5x what most any other production S&W costs, I’d bring them home in a dump truck!

2007 MSRP of a 5-inch Model 952-2 was $2,070 and for the rare 6-inch long slide, quite a premium at $2,441. Compare those numbers to what they bring on the used market now.

Even a HIGH USE and dinged up 952-2 (which is rare, most folks kept them in high condition) is likely to pull $2,000 at the bottom end. If you have a nearly new one with full original kit, you are again talking closer to $3,000 or beyond if the bidders are motivated.

There are many factors that work in concert to make the market price for a handgun long out of production. Some times these things make sense to some or most of us. Some times they make almost no sense to many of us. My easiest example is the market value of a S&W 1046. In my opinion, it’s long past “ludicrous” and entrenched in “completely nutbar and senseless.”

 

[colt_saa]

WOW

I really like the 6" PPC. It feels good in my hand and shoots GREAT. The extra length and weight of the slide soaks up recoil energy for the 9MM cartridge with ease. I am thankful to have purchased mine at sane prices.

At these more current prices, I would never have purchased most of my Performance Center firearms. This includes two of my Favorite shooters, the Models 845 and 3566 Limited

But then, when I look at the current Pricing on the now discontinued SIG X-5s and X-6s I feel the same way about them.

All of these were FANTASTIC firearms when they were produced. Even though they commanded a premium price above their production brother, that price was still within the reach of much of the shooting public. I had to struggle to be able to buy my first Performance Center offering more than a quarter century ago. Back then I did not have as much discretionary funds as I do today.

As we get farther and farther away from when these fine specimens of the Gun Makers craft were produced, the circle of shooters that can afford to buy them continues to shrink and I have to wonder if those high priced purchases are for investment or enjoyment of the Shooting Sports.

Like cherrypointmarine, I will often bring the more unusual firearms shooting just to re-experience the Joy and Surprise that a shooter experiences the first time he/she is exposed to one of these awesome pistols.

 

[CALREB]

CP Marine, I was pretty lucky like your friend . I was REALLY lucky because my wife was also a shooter so no issues about gun stuff. Except my dry fire routine drove her crazy ,she says. I wasnt a type that had to have every model or anything just liked to keep up with the Jones's and give myself the best equipment as I saw it. Back then there were a lot of prize guns and I never kept them, always sold to cover cost of something else.

I always like the lever type trigger on the S/Ws way better than the regular 1911 type trigger. I even had a lever trigger installed on my longslide open type 1911 . Just felt better to me. I removed it years later so I could shoot Distinguished with the same gun.
Its not just S/W , Springfield Custom no longer makes a longslide PPC gun or any PPC gun that I know of. Why ??

Hey why were discussing nice guns. One of the guys on our team, great shooter, great guy. He got us most of our sponsors and support as our dept gave us nothing. He was pretty well off and spared no expense on guns. I bought and have several of his hand me downs. He gave me a 52-2 like new , 5 mags, when I retired. So that gives you an idea.

Here is a 9mm long slide he had Springfield Custom build him. They used it as a cover gun for their catalog. Never seen another like it. Yes it shot great and the muzzle barely moved. . He offered it to me when he retired from shooting but I didnt buy it, as I retired the next year. It is one cool gun. I often wish I had bought it.

Photo of my Springfield longslide with lever trigger and grip plates, 59 oz. Made 147s feel like weak 380s. Still enjoy shooting it.

 

[colt_saa]

Here is a 9mm long slide he had Springfield Custom build him. They used it as a cover gun for their catalog. Never seen another like it. Yes it shot great and the muzzle barely moved. . He offered it to me when he retired from shooting but I didnt buy it, as I retired the next year. It is one cool gun. I often wish I had bought it.

Very Nice 1911

If the price was reasonable, I would have figured out a way to buy that one

I have always liked the Aritocrat sight, I just used on the last 10MM Auto long slide that I built

Is that 9MM a widebody? Or is it just a optical illusion from the camera angle. That front strap looks mighty wide

 

[SmithNut]

How about a One of a Kind DAO PPC 9.....?

 

[Sevens]

I cringe at that one. I years back saved that picture to show to others.

(To self: QUICK say something positive!)

I’m thrilled it’s a one of one!

 

[CALREB]

Im still trying to figure why he had that built. As D/A only it might meet dept specs of a carry pistol ? If you had trouble with anticipation, you get more of a surprise break ??? I would think a nice 4" or 5" DPA model made to D/A only would suffice. But then again in those days if you had a few bucks, and had the want, why not.

Like Sevens said Glorious Days of the real Performance Center. They would alter anything they made to your desire as long as safe and functional. And if you ordered 20 or more build whatever you wanted for the most part. Man, think what 20 of us could dream up today if that was an option. Most of us are way better off financially now then back then. And I bet we have a better gun imagination. I would go for a 6" 845 in a heartbeat. Sevens has me feelin the heat...Ha!

 

[Sevens]

Oh god, to be totally honest, my brain has not ever fathomed a SIX INCH Model 845! That’s fantastic, I would love it to death.

My brain is mildly warped. Before I got my second 845, I was afraid to talk too much about 845’s in an open forum. Always was too worried that I would (some how?!) generate too much interest and make it more difficult for me to get another one!

But I did, a year and a half ago, and now I finally feel like I’m “set.”