Peter Gunn's Holster

[Onomea]

Recently I've been watching reruns of Peter Gunn, the late '50s detective show. He, and other characters in the show like his cop pal and the BGs, wear crossdraw holsters. Maybe I'm just flaggin' on it but it seems to me to be (near?) universal on the show.

They seem to be worn close to 10 or even just forward of 9 o'clock, which seems pretty far over there to get to. (While I've never worn a crossdraw, seems to me close to 10:30 or 11:00 would be about right, for a right-handed man.

Further, it looks to me like these holsters have very little, if any cant.

Were these types of holsters popular in the fifties? What was the rationale for cross draw instead of strong side? I think the rationale nowadays is usually easier access if sitting, but these guys are running around on their feet most of the time.)

Or, maybe these guys are just wearing their strong-side holsters on their off side as a practice similar to wearing one's wristwatch with the watch face facing down, on the bottom of one's wrist, buckle at the top of the wrist, as was a custom among some, for a time?

Ya know, I bet that's it. They're just wearing strong-side holsters crossdraw 'cause they're too dang cool to wear 'em the regular way. That would explain the lack of cant, too!

(The show is on Amazon Prime, by the way. Very soothing half hour of before bed watching.)

 

[Rpg]

That always bothered me back in the day those shows were on TV.

Dragnet and Highway Patrol with Broadric Crawford used the same odd cross draw holsters.

I suspect these holsters just came out of the prop department with Hollywood’s lack of understanding of all things guns.

 

[sigp220.45]

This is an LAPD homicide detective from the 1950s. This is either a left handed cross draw or a strong side cavalry draw (or a reversed photo).

I do think cross draws were much more popular “back in the day” than they are now.

 

[lihpster]

Surprise, surprise! They didn't care!
Seriously, the only people who would care were such a small fraction of their viewers, who had limited means of venting their frustrations, that they didn't care. What mattered was did it work for the production. And actors sit around alot. Comfortable actors make better shows. So if an actor pushes his holster farther over so it's more comfortable, great.

 

[sigp220.45]

Jack Webb cared a lot about authenticity, and had LAPD technical advisors on set. When LAPD switched from 6” Model 14s to 4” Model 15s, Adam-12 did, too. They also switched from pouch type holsters to clamshells.

When Reed and Malloy are off duty, they also carry their snubbies in crossdraw holsters.

 

[S&W Fan]

I moved to the Denver area in 1984. Got to know a few guys on DPD, we would meet for lunch or coffee now and then. At the time a few of the longer term patrol officers carried revolvers in cross draws. If I remember right they were grandfathered in for a few years before they went away all together.

Back to the topic I find it funny to see how the costumer on shows has many tv cops carry their guns. Just another day in Hollywood.

 

[crazyphil]

Actually the crossdraw holster was quite popular with plain cloths cops in
the 50s, 60s, and up into the 70s.

One of the most popular at the time was the Lewis spring type crossdraw
shown with my S&W Model 10 with 2" barrel.

I think the reason the crossdraw was popular was because the
plain cloths cops were in and out of their car almost all of their
shift.

Next time you watch Dragnet, you might see Sgt. Friday wearing his
with his S&W M&P with 2" barrel. You also might notice on his right
side he is carrying a 2x2x2 ammo pouch. The pouch I show in the
photo below carries a Bianchi speed strip.

 

[lihpster]

Jack Webb cared a lot about authenticity, and had LAPD technical advisors on set. When LAPD switched from 6” Model 14s to 4” Model 15s, Adam-12 did, too. They also switched from pouch type holsters to clamshells.

When Reed and Malloy are off duty, they also carry their snubbies in crossdraw holsters.

I was referring specifically to the placement of the holster on the belt not the holster itself.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Maybe they didn't have the modern advantage of "professional" gun media types telling them how it is neccessary to draw so fast lightning can't touch 'em. Maybe they knew that if you felt the neccessity to have a gun out, the place for it to be was in your hand, not to have your hand poised over a fast draw holster.

Or perhaps I'm just an innocent among the cognoscenti.

 

[crazyphil]

sigp220, I think that homocide detective you show above has learned
that carrying his revolver that far back, looks to be about 5pm, it is
easier to use the Cavalry draw.

 

[Onomea]

This is an LAPD homicide detective from the 1950s. This is either a left handed cross draw or a strong side cavalry draw (or a reversed photo).

I think strong side cavalry draw. That's a large revolver — we need T-Star to ID it for us, dang it... — and I bet he carried it there so he could sit down more comfortably. It's behind his hip. No way he's grabbin' that with his left hand...

Or his right:



I see Phil beat me to the punch there.

Re revo, I'm gonna guess a Colt New Service.

 

[lihpster]

Cross or Cav, looks like a nightmare from a weapon security point of view. Different times.

 

[crazyphil]

I think we could call it the Barney Miller carry.

 

[DumpStick]

I thing strong side cavalry draw. That's a large revolver — we need T-Star to ID it for us, dang it... — and I bet he carried it there so he could sit down more comfortably. It's behind his hip. No way he's grabbin' that with his left hand...

Or his right:



I see Phil beat me to the punch there.

It looks to me like it would be easy to draw. Just take your right hand, palm out, and slide it between your back and the grip.

Looks comfortable to me.

 

[Onomea]

Comfortable for cavalry draw, as you describe, sure. But not for standard, reach across the abdomen cross draw.

But how about all those no cant (cantless?) holsters? Are they wearing strongside holsters cross draw? (Phil's example excepted.)

 

[s&wchad]

Peter Gunn was a cutting-edge series for its time! Henry Mancini did the sound track and there was action, suspense, smarts and babes. I love it!

Craig Stevens played the part well. I don’t know what type of holster he wore, since his S&W 2” M&P magically appeared in his hand whenever he needed it.

This is the only photo of his holster I could find and it’s a screenshot from a clip. The classic cross draw holster of the day was a Lewis, but they didn’t ride this low or have a cant. Peter usually wore Sans-A-Belt slacks, so that rules out a belt holster! Probably just the magic of TV!

This thread needs music!
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oysMt8iL9UE[/ame]

 

[S&W Fan]

I want the theme song for my ring tone!!

 

[Father Joe]

IIRC the Bruce Nelson 55 (better known as the Milt Sparks) was originally conceived as a concealable cross draw

 

[Onomea]

Chad, I'll try to grab some holster photos, too. I note in your pic, the grab is from a 1967 revival (?) of some sort. I think original show ran from about '58 to '61 or '62 or so. I think that cant is a later variation 'cause what I've been seeing sure looks cantless to me.

(I'm still on season 1. A lot of fun. All in black & white, most action taking place at night, frequently on the waterfront, on simple sets with straightforward plots, al, ending neatly resolved in half an hour. The atmosphere really makes it. His jazz singing girlfriend, such an innocent sweetie.... but somethings gotta be going on back at his apartment on that couch at 2 AM or whatever. I like the club where he hangs out... Great stuff! He kinda comes off like a tougher version of Cary Grant. There are all the typical gun handling mistakes, of course, but it is great fun. I sleep well after!)

 

[crazyphil]

It's easy to mistake the popular Lewis, on the right, with Bucheimer
-Clark Sheriff Model, on the left. Note that the spring goes up full
length of the cylinder on the Sheriff, but only about
half way on the Lewis.

Red Nichols has theorized that Lewis and Clark
might have been one and the same person. Their places of business were
only a block away. Clark became the Clark in Bucheimer-Clark. BTW both
the Lewis and the B-C are neutral cant.