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What will happen to all the M9s when the new Sig 320 is in place?
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Phased Out M9 Berettas
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Jack Flash
SWCA Member
Before January 20, 2017, probably melted down as scrap steel ... now, well, it just may be different.
The more important question:
Are there any M1911s / M1911A1s left that could go on the surplus market?????
The more important question:
Are there any M1911s / M1911A1s left that could go on the surplus market?????
OP
Mistered
Member
Figured those were LONG gone!
DWalt
Member
As of 10 years ago, there were still thousands of 1911A1s at Anniston Depot. I saw them. I imagine they have all been given the Captain Crunch treatment by now. I really expect that regardless of whoever is in the White House, those M9s will get the same treatment. Or maybe given away to some friendly or not-so-friendly government as military assistance.
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We can only hope...
It's a bit more complicated than jut who happens to be in the White House.
Most people never knew, or have forgotten that the import restrictions on handguns that were contained in the Gun Control Act of 1968 were suggested and supported by the US gun industry, as a means to reduce competition for new US made firearms.
This is the same gun industry that won't oppose bans on importing military surplus firearms, and they certainly don't want to see a number of nicely priced M9s showing up on the used market. It's not just Beretta, but any company that sees potential lost sales of semi-automatic handguns.
Then you've got the bureaucracy and in particular the general service administration that would much rather cut them up for scrap than to sell them at fair market value and bring the proceeds back into the budget. That is very much political, but it's also an issue in institutional inertia and it takes awhile to turn around a 30 year history like that.
Most people never knew, or have forgotten that the import restrictions on handguns that were contained in the Gun Control Act of 1968 were suggested and supported by the US gun industry, as a means to reduce competition for new US made firearms.
This is the same gun industry that won't oppose bans on importing military surplus firearms, and they certainly don't want to see a number of nicely priced M9s showing up on the used market. It's not just Beretta, but any company that sees potential lost sales of semi-automatic handguns.
Then you've got the bureaucracy and in particular the general service administration that would much rather cut them up for scrap than to sell them at fair market value and bring the proceeds back into the budget. That is very much political, but it's also an issue in institutional inertia and it takes awhile to turn around a 30 year history like that.
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ordnanceguy
SWCA Member
Eventually they will almost certainly go to see Captain Crunch located at Anniston, AL where the military disposes of its small arms. Over 1,000,000 weapons have been crunched here.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Eventually they will almost certainly go to see Captain Crunch located at Anniston, AL where the military disposes of its small arms. Over 1,000,000 weapons have been crunched here.
Just to be clear, I "liked" Charlie's post not because I like what's going on there, but I'd never actually seen a picture of the thing
.BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
A couple of career military friends (Army) tell me that most of the Berettas they see now days are very, very worn, with even the recently "arsenaled" guns being sloppy. They have been heavily used. Both felt that the services didn't buy enough of them to go around in the first place.
The CMP was supposed to get some 1911-1A's last year but I haven't heard or seen anything about the status of that.
The CMP was supposed to get some 1911-1A's last year but I haven't heard or seen anything about the status of that.
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No love loss (at least for me) at all over the Beretta's. I do wish Smith or Colt could have made a great Pistol for the US Armed Forces - but I don't really think they had their hearts into it.
That's the basic situation anytime the US military goes shopping for a new service pistol. When the military gets there, is has the option to either buy more of what it already has, or procure a new service pistol.
The US military reached the same place with the 1911A1 in the late 1970s as its stock of mostly WWII produced 1911A1s were reaching the point that even an arsenal rebuild was less than satisfactory. The 1911 lasted 40 years post WWII, in large part because the US military bought a lot of them and had more of them to spread the normal wear and tear.
The M9 has been around 32 years and they are not the pistol they used to be when they were first introduced. Pistols are primarily a secondary weapon and training with it isn't the highest priority for the support troops who are issued them. After 20-30 years of sometimes daily function checks, even the low round count M9s are no where near prime condition.
A ordinance friend of mine was asked by the National Guard to explore why they were getting broken fire control parts in low round count M9s and he pointed out all the impacts that occur outhouse parts during a routine function check. Those parts are face hardened to wear well, but over time and repeated impacts the interior structure of the metal begins to embrittle, until the part breaks. The older Walther PP and PPK pistols (dating from 1929 and 1931 respectively) have similar issues, just from normal use and decocking over the last 80 plus years. Add in repeated function checks for an M9 used in training, and the rename result doesn't take nearly as long.
Me too. I hated the M9 when it was first issued. I even bought a personal M9 in hopes of growing to like it, but it remains one of the two handguns I've ever sold because I just didn't like it.
It was, IMHO, a mistake as a service pistol as the grip was too large and the trigger reach too long for many shooters who wee issued it to be able to master it, and it is significantly larger and heavier than a 9mm Para handgun needs to be.
Cardboard_killer
Member
My old boss was retired military. One of his last jobs had him in Europe where he had access to just about any military firearm that was then in service. He said the 1911s were just in miserable shape, constantly needing repair work.
I would guess that the new Sig will be much easier to maintain in the long run, but in the short run will be a huge improvement on shot out M9s. I normally enjoy a milsurp, but I won't be picking up a M9 if they go out on the market. Shoot, you can buy a European police trade in currently for less than $300.
DWalt
Member
I read something once that during the Army pistol trials preceding the adoption of the M9, it was originally intended to put the M1911A1 through exactly the same "torture test" protocols as a control. The problem was that the Army could not locate in its inventory any new and unfired M1911A1s to do that. To me that story seems very unlikely, but maybe it's true.
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amazingflapjack
US Veteran
Is the Anniston facility on the sight of the former Ft. McClellan?
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Sales FAQ - Civilian Marksmanship ProgramCivilian Marksmanship Program
Legislation for CMP to sell off the surplus 1911s was passed and signed into law. The CMP and the Army are currently working out the details, but at least it should halt their destruction.
Current speculation is they will be about 1000 bucks each, with the really good or rare ones going to auction.
I bet the Berettas will just go into that big government warehouse from Indiana Jones.
Attachments
I hope so. I hate to see guns get dumped into the ocean, as is done in NYC, or melted down into sewer caps, no matter how cheap or worn they are. Can never forget that photo of a pile of guns awaiting destruction in Australia, IIRC. Prominent in that pile was a Colt Python...
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
VaTom
Member
Approximately 1.6 million 191a1s were made under contract during WWII. Some went to lend lease countries.
(Remington Rand - 1,000,000, Colt-300,000, Ithaca-300,000)
The military never bought any more 1911a1s after 1945 when contracts ended. Three wars (WWII, Korean, Viet Nam) and 72 years later it would be hard to believe that many NIB military contract 1911a1s still exist in inventory. More likely arsenal rebuilds would be in inventory.
Will be interesting to see.
(Remington Rand - 1,000,000, Colt-300,000, Ithaca-300,000)
The military never bought any more 1911a1s after 1945 when contracts ended. Three wars (WWII, Korean, Viet Nam) and 72 years later it would be hard to believe that many NIB military contract 1911a1s still exist in inventory. More likely arsenal rebuilds would be in inventory.
Will be interesting to see.
THE PILGRIM
Member
Recently I saw a personally owned M9 which failed in Afghanistan .
Luckily, the Army Ranger owner was target shooting when a chunk of metal broke off inside the rear of the slide.
I asked his Dad who showed it to me, what is he carrying now?
Glock.
Luckily, the Army Ranger owner was target shooting when a chunk of metal broke off inside the rear of the slide.
I asked his Dad who showed it to me, what is he carrying now?
Glock.
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........Ten of "em" tied together Might? make a decent boat anchor..........
