Picking Up a M1917 at a Gun Show (What To Look For)

Screwball

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I’ve been wanting a .45 ACP revolver for some time, and having some cash set aside, think I’m going to do it. Prior to leaving NJ (beginning of April), there are two Oaks, PA gun shows scheduled that I can make; one the second weekend of February and one the fourth weekend of March (March is bigger, and likely going to both... unless I buy one next Friday). Just to clear up any mention of Federal law with buying handguns, I am a FFL-03.

So, I’m looking for a .45 ACP revolver, C&R eligible, and preferably US military history. Will likely be something I’ll shoot periodically, and possibly carry on certain holidays (Independence Day, Memorial Day, etc). If I find a S&W Brazilian model in good condition/decent price, I’d consider it. Commercial guns, as long as C&R eligible and in my price range... maybe. I do have to be honest, seeing Fury and that older TV movie The Lost Battalion, I sort of want a revolver with historical value (and likely would get a letter along with it).

Not really looking for anything cut down or in crappy condition. Obviously, I’m looking at most about 100 year old revolvers, so obviously going to see some wear. For reference, I have $1,100 sitting in my safe... set aside for this purchase. Will likely put $200 or $300 more in the pot, but seeing the BIN prices of some guns sitting on Gunbroker, I can’t see paying more than $1,250 for something I’d be happy with.

Reading the title, I do want to point out that I’m not asking on what to look for in regards to checking the mechanics of a revolver. Likely not going to be able to pull the side plate... but will check the crane, rod, barrel/finish condition, and lockup/alignment of the cylinder before buying. But after looking into the Victory revolvers when I picked up my “Oswald” Victory, didn’t know if there were any modifications commonly made to S&W M1917s when they were surplused. Figure .45 ACP being somewhat common here wouldn’t be a big desire to convert these over to something else... unless .45 Colt. Any markings to look for or shouldn’t be present on US guns (asking in case someone is trying to pass off something that isn’t what they portray it as)?

I am aware of Colt doing a similar M1917 pattern with their design... but more of a S&W guy. Anything specific to look at, if I get one of those in my sights? I did read into it a little, and service numbers below 30451 may have cylinders that don’t headspace the ACP without moonclips (some cylinders were swapped out, so just something to look for). Personally, I’ll likely just run them with moonclips... but prefer the ability to just shove in a cartridge and be ready to fire.

Thanks for any help in this.
 
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With the dollars you have set aside you should easily be able to fund what you're looking for. Finding one is another matter. I've found the pre war N frames almost non existent at gun shows. I hate that. I also like the 1917's. I've been able to snag an early example with the grooved hammer and GHS markings, a very decent Brazilian, two transitional 1917's and a beautiful model marked Mod-22. Keep the faith. It'll happen.

Roger
 
Hi Screwball,

Wish I had some advise on the M1917 but I kinda stick to targets guns.

What I can tell you is I go to the Oaks shows myself and saw at least five 1917s at the last one. Counting prewar N frames is becoming easier and easier these days over five is an accurate number.

There has been a Commercial one at that show for over a year.

I think a military table holder also had a couple that looked parkerized but I am not sure of those.
 
What I can tell you is I go to the Oaks shows myself and saw at least five 1917s at the last one. Counting prewar N frames is becoming easier and easier these days over five is an accurate number.



There has been a Commercial one at that show for over a year.



I think a military table holder also had a couple that looked parkerized but I am not sure of those.


Yea, I’ve saw some there... but wasn’t looking for one at that time. Was the one before Christmas the last Oaks show? I picked up a Colt Vest Pocket from that one...

I was actually close to buying a S&W M1917 from another NJ resident, but he does raffles on MeWe... didn’t work out, so I put about half of the money I had into the safe, and looked at less costly pistols. Wanted a CZ-52, but only saw one... and was more interested in the Colt by the time I saw it.

Guy I picked the Colt up from was a good guy. I’m very OCD with cleaning guns, and there was nothing noteworthy when I got it home. Swapped in new springs, and it is an awesome pistol with A LOT of life left in her.

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Don’t happen to recall any prices? Just figured I’d walk in with something in my head.
 
I don't know about the .45 Colt, but the 45ACP cylinder will have the ridge in each cylinder for the cartridge case to headspace correctly. I imagine the 45 Colt headspaces off the rim, but I may be wrong.

Other than trimming the barrel and removing the lanyard loop the only other thing you may find, and will probably be a deal-breaker, is the removal of US Property markings.

Best of luck. I hope you get a nice one. I'd hold out for a USP one, myself. I have one, but it's not particularly nice aesthetically, and dates to September 1918- so likely was still crated up on Armistice day. Maybe mine went to Russia...who knows?
 
This is a good question. Your funds should easily get you a shooter grade and more likely a pretty nice example. I purchased one a few months ago. The gun I bought was shooter grade only because someone thought it was important to engrave his SSN in the grip forestrap. Other than that my mine was in very good to excellent condition for $600. A military example too. I also looked at one at a pawn shop today...it was a disaster.
Here's what I looked for and why I walked away.
US Army 1917 on butt and s/n, correct markings on the barrel top and side? Yes all good.
Half moon front sight? No it had been ground to make a 2 tiered front sight. (At this point I was already likely not interested but I did look it over more.
Serial numbers on all the right places: Butt yes, Cylinder yes, Ejector ? barrel No..no s/n at all on barrel flat.
Now I was very uninterested.. no I was done...but I did keep looking. It had a s/n under 20k so the hammer had the fine grooves in it. (Too bad an early 1917 had the barrel changed out and s/n on barrel flat removed.)

The top strap did not have US Property marking either. EDIT: This is incorrect see post below for correction.

The barrel pin was buggered a bit too to indicate this had not been done at the factory. It also did not have correct or even S&W stocks on it.
If you have access to SCSW 4th Edition, it does a pretty good job pointing out the various variations by s/n range. Which stamps are there or not is dependent on s/n range. Flaming bombs, Inspector initials, and Property markings are dependent on when it was made. You need to have that info in front of you to make a decision if you want to make sure it's all correct. I hope this helps.
A few good pics of a good example would be a good idea to take with you as all military examples have some of the same characteristics.
 
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"The top strap did not have US Property marking either."

That marking appears on Victory models, not 1917s. Military 1917s have "United States Property" on the underside of the barrel, forward of the lug.
That is correct and I stand corrected. I recently purchased a Victory and Army 1917 in the same deal. I was going from memory. But the gun I did look at in the pawn shop did not have a US Property marking anywhere.
 
Well, got a 1917...

Picked it up from the same guy who sold me my Vest Pocket. And also got to meet paplinker.

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Yep, a Colt.

1919 gun, and is actually pretty nice. $795... which felt was pretty good. Trigger felt good, but when I got home and took it apart, I realized it wasn’t cleaned likely since WWII. After a nice cleaning, it is an awesome trigger!

Do have to say, I prefer S&W lock work. The Colt was easy to get back together, minus the side plate going back on. The latch... and trying to get that stud in the hold... I’ll take the S&W design any day of the week. But did get it back together.

Numbers match, even the pencil numbers on the two grip halves match the gun. Barrel looks good, as does the the cylinder. Feel like I got a good revolver.

And considering the next show in March, I hopefully will have my taxes back by then. With the money I saved and some from my refund, I’ll likely be able to find a nice S&W. [emoji106]
 
It was nice meeting you also.

Gotta laugh. I told you there were 1917s there and you found the one at the booth I was helping at.

I walked that show twice and you got the only one in the building today. Rick was teaching me about a few things Colt on that gun.
 
Back in the late '80s, I was carrying a Colt 1917 as my duty weapon. It had a heavy, but really smooth action. I shot a 59/60 on the state qualification with it. Since it was a department issued handgun, I had to turn it in when I retired. I tried to buy it and the nickel Colt Cobra that was my back-up gun, but no-go. Worse still, the lieutenant told me the 1917 would probably be destroyed, because no body wanted these "big old clunkers" for a duty gun. :( :(
 
Yea, he is a good guy. If you talk to him, let him know that gun was filthy inside. Knew it wasn’t one that he had for any length of time. The Vest Pocket I got from him... I couldn’t find a speck of dirt on it. But this one cleaned up well.

After I left you guys, I looked around to see if anyone had holsters. In the other room, a PA FFL-01 had an ok CZ-52 at a little above ok price. Since I had money to spare, I looked... asked if he had issue with a C&R (nope)... and said I’d buy it. Was ok until he saw NJ on my license. Started asking me if it was ok. Pulled the Colt out of my bag and said I’m pretty sure it is... Didn’t get into FFL-03 being mostly setup for interstate acquisitions.

He looked around to try and find another dealer to ask if it is ok. Then asked me if I could find someone for him to discuss with. Told him Rick was on the opposite side, and if he wanted to walk down with me, I wouldn’t mind. He wanted me to bring Rick to him. Yea, I’m going to trouble another person so he can feel comfortable making a sale. I’ll get right on that.

Took my money, and went home. Can’t wait for March. I really do want to get a S&W now.

Muley Gil... I believe it. Just look at the NJSP. They destroyed all of the H&K P7M8s they had, and the same with the SIG P228s. Few of the Troopers I knew that like the SIGs said they would have bought them in a second, but why resell something and make money on it? Let’s destroy them. [emoji107]
 
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