All reloading manuals suggest starting at the "starting load" and working up gradually from there. No manual ever says take the maximum load you can find anywhere and back off .2 to .5 grains. If you consider how little .5 grains are in a 50 grain load, that's hardly any reduction. Examining primers isn't always an accurate way to determine over pressuring. There are too many variables in reloading for a "one load works for everything load". Barrel inside diameters are not all exactly the same because the machining is not perfect. It is always a good idea to spend some time in the front of the reloading manual learning and relearning the basics. I've been loading for over 50 years and I still reread the basics periodically. Good luck.
Piercing Primers
- Thread starter Lief
- Start date
OK, I understand. I think these particular ones were resized but not fired in my rifle yet. The way die is set is how it has been for the rounds I have made so far. Except for the over-pressured ones they have all cycled perfectly.
I will re-smoke and edge it down until I see a little disturbance of the smoke on the shoulder for both.
Your comment made me think that I will need to reset the die for every manufacturer. Maybe that will just be initially and after the cases are formed in my chamber they will be more uniform.
Thanks again.
Geno44, Thanks for your comments. You are right about that. I have ordered the new Hornady manual and the new Sierra manual as those are the projectiles I have to work with now. I didn't have a Hornady manual and my Sierra manual is old.
I started with the CFE at 44.6 and worked up to 49.6 using the Hornady 150's without problems except wide patterns. I mistakenly used the Hodgdon data for Nosler and thought I was making them under max.
I know the error of my ways now.
I am doing some testing for the potential headspace issue now and will use a mid-range load with the CFE, probably 44.6 or something like that to see the effect of sizing better on the primers. Maybe accuracy will improve as well.
I should get the manuals Friday. I will use them.
I started with the CFE at 44.6 and worked up to 49.6 using the Hornady 150's without problems except wide patterns. I mistakenly used the Hodgdon data for Nosler and thought I was making them under max.
I know the error of my ways now.
I am doing some testing for the potential headspace issue now and will use a mid-range load with the CFE, probably 44.6 or something like that to see the effect of sizing better on the primers. Maybe accuracy will improve as well.
I should get the manuals Friday. I will use them.
rojodiablo
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What a TON of great insight!!
Really good thread, and it's great reading and learning.
I don't reload much, and I always try to run on the low side for concerns of doing damage to a rifle or pistol. This thread reinforces my feelings!
Well, at the very least........ Lief- you have probably got the fastest M&P10 on the block- by a couple hundred FPS or so!!!
Really good thread, and it's great reading and learning.
I don't reload much, and I always try to run on the low side for concerns of doing damage to a rifle or pistol. This thread reinforces my feelings!
Well, at the very least........ Lief- you have probably got the fastest M&P10 on the block- by a couple hundred FPS or so!!!
LOL Well, I think I have peaked on speed ... definitely cutting back to sanity now that I know how to find it.
You called it perfectly. I used the ones from the picture and had to take about 3/4 of a turn on the size die to make it look like I was on the shoulder. I did both cases. I inserted a projectile in both and it appeared to chamber fine but I could not run the charging handle to eject them... now I know what you meant.
I made two more passes for about another 3/4 turn and then they finally ejected.
Then I took two cases I knew had been fired in the rifle and sized them and they worked too.
The shoulders definitely show signs of being adjusted. They are shiny with light rub marks on them. I guess the next test is to see if they eject by hand when the rifle is hot. If they don't I know what to do ... make'm smaller.
I plan a range day Friday as I have other work out there anyway.
MichiganScott
Member
Good luck at the range.
There have been several articles in the gun media lately concerning reloading for .308 caliber AR's. The conclusion of the authors seems to be that they function more reliably with mid-range loads. That's probably the reason some people feel the M&P 10 guns are over-gassed.
You are correct that you need to set the resizing die differently for different manufacturers, another reason I don't use range brass. Back when brass was readily available and relatively cheap, I'd buy 500 of one lot when I obtained a new rifle. It makes the reloading process easier and removes one more variable.
There have been several articles in the gun media lately concerning reloading for .308 caliber AR's. The conclusion of the authors seems to be that they function more reliably with mid-range loads. That's probably the reason some people feel the M&P 10 guns are over-gassed.
You are correct that you need to set the resizing die differently for different manufacturers, another reason I don't use range brass. Back when brass was readily available and relatively cheap, I'd buy 500 of one lot when I obtained a new rifle. It makes the reloading process easier and removes one more variable.
You might try Varget in lieu of CFE 223.
Varget is a consistently good performer, both with .223/5.56x45NATO and .308/7.62x51NATO.
Varget is more of a stick powder and won't meter as well (in a thrower) as CFE 223 - but if you're measuring every charge - it won't matter.
In my neck of the woods, Varget is easy to get, too.
I haven't seen any CFE223 locally, since it came out on the market. H322 I can get - but no CFE 223 - am I'm convinced that I could catch a Unicorn before I could lay my hands on any Benchmark.
Varget is a consistently good performer, both with .223/5.56x45NATO and .308/7.62x51NATO.
Varget is more of a stick powder and won't meter as well (in a thrower) as CFE 223 - but if you're measuring every charge - it won't matter.
In my neck of the woods, Varget is easy to get, too.
I haven't seen any CFE223 locally, since it came out on the market. H322 I can get - but no CFE 223 - am I'm convinced that I could catch a Unicorn before I could lay my hands on any Benchmark.
Thanks for your advice.
Varget is the one hard to get around here (SoCal) these days. The supplier gets it but when the doors open the people in line buy it. It is also expensive now.
A friend told me about the CFE 223 and I tried some and had good results. The copper loosening aspect didn't hurt my feelings either. It is small ball powder so it is easy to dispense.
I use the RCBS drop with the micrometer to dispense a charge into the case, weigh the charge and then put it back in the case and stuff a bullet. The RCBS drop is pretty consistent but not perfect which is why I went to the procedure I am using now. My SD and ES have dropped dramatically.
CFE 223 is good for 308 too but I decided to try the 8208 instead of holding out for Varget, thinking about shooting long. 8208 is short rod powder and it catches a little moving the dispensing handle sometimes so weighing is even more important. Supposedly 8208 is very forgiving about slight variances in charge weight and big temperature changes.
I have loaded a few but have nothing definitive to report about the powder. It goes bang and the SMK 175's liked my load but it was only at around 100yds. At that they weren't cloverleafs just in the neighborhood.
Much to do.
BlueOvalBandit
Member
Everything in this thread made sense right up until you said you found cfe223 in SoCal... that powder has been on my list to try since release. Glad your issues have resolved.
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The Hornady manual (you ordered) also says (page 413) that IMR 4064 was better-than-average in their tests. Try that, if you can find it out there in the PRK*.
Now, if you're shooting an M1A, then Hornady will tell you to use Vihtavuori N-135, N-140, or N-150. I have a friend who still uses Varget for that, and every time I shoot his Springfield, they make one ragged hole.
* People's Republic of Kalifornistan (PRK)
Now, if you're shooting an M1A, then Hornady will tell you to use Vihtavuori N-135, N-140, or N-150. I have a friend who still uses Varget for that, and every time I shoot his Springfield, they make one ragged hole.
* People's Republic of Kalifornistan (PRK)
That was a right place, right time kinda thing.
Phillips Wholesale is getting in lots of stuff but you have to be early (in line before they open) on the day it arrives to get powder.
He has projectiles left over usually. I don't know if you know him but he is open Thurs, Fri and Sat only. You can find him with google.
BlueOvalBandit
Member
I go to Phillips in Covina, just not lately been busy. Usually when I stop by once in a blue moon Richard is nonstop answering the phone with when is the powder and primers coming. It's almost comical except it's put a damper on my load development.
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