Pit Bull's: misunderstood

[7.62foryou]

Wheelgunner, You are correct to a point, which is why it is important that people who own big strong dogs of any breed be trained in dog behavior. As I and someone else stated if everyone is not dominate over the dog the dog becomes confused, frighten or frustrated and will try to lead those he sees as meek or followers. Since they can't talk or slap they bite. They don't know how frail we are and hurt us when they bite. The bite is usually not aggression but an attempt to correct what they see as bad behavior on the part of the human. Those that are tied up all day with no way to expend energy usually become frustrated and anxious. The ones that are beaten, hit or otherwise physically abused become frighten and distrustful of humans that "invade" their space and defend themselves before they become victims of yet another human. In every case I"ve seen of bad dogs the human(s) were the root cause of the bad behavior. A poke appropreiate to the dogs size is all that's ever needed. Hitting a dog is not the why to dominate them. As for small children they should not be left alone with ANY dog! I wouldn't leave a small child alone with a teacup yorkie. As I stated a dog will try to lead the meek and correct "bad" behavior on the part of the chlid. When large dogs do it the child is hurt or killed. Until the child can be trained in dog behavior a dominate human should always be close by. A fearful, frustrated dog will continue an attack until the "threat" in eliminated, in some cases death of the human wil be the result. Hope this helps you to understand a litle about dogs.

 

[bk43]

Originally posted by Wheelgunner840:
You can train them to supress that instinctual behavior, but it is always there, and IMO, one cannot trust that it will not surface at any given time.

I don't know a lot about dogs like 7.62foryou but I think when the dog accepts that you are the leader, and understands that you are going to feed and shelter them(and take them for rides in the truck

), the things you worry about surfacing go away. We rescued an 2 1/2 year old Akita about a year ago. She is over a hundred pounds of pure power and the wrong side of her would not be a happy place. If we introduce a person or animal to her everything's cool and they're treated like they were us. We love her to death and she gives us more joy and good company than you can imagine. So I guess you have to put me in the "it's the owner" camp.

BTW a very interesting show, "The Dog Whisperer", is running a lot on a HD channel now. Although the guy can be a little hammy at times, he loves Rotties and Pits and can really handle them. Well worth a watch if you get a chance.

Bob

 

[Wheelgunner840]

Thanks 7.62foryou.

Hopefully, I will have myself back in my own house soon. I plan on getting a dog. I will most likely be contacting you for some advice on which breed I should aquire given my situation. I won't know for several months, but it is nice to have a good source for advice when the time arrives.

WG840

 

[7.62foryou]

Wheelgunner you have my E-mail address if you email me I'll give you my cell #. I'd be happy to help you. You said you live in Smithfield, I work in Franklin MA so getting together will be no problem.

 

[7.62foryou]

Originally posted by bk43:

Originally posted by Wheelgunner840:
You can train them to supress that instinctual behavior, but it is always there, and IMO, one cannot trust that it will not surface at any given time.

I don't know a lot about dogs like 7.62foryou but I think when the dog accepts that you are the leader, and understands that you are going to feed and shelter them(and take them for rides in the truck

), the things you worry about surfacing go away. We rescued an 2 1/2 year old Akita about a year ago. She is over a hundred pounds of pure power and the wrong side of her would not be a happy place. If we introduce a person or animal to her everything's cool and they're treated like they were us. We love her to death and she gives us more joy and good company than you can imagine. So I guess you have to put me in the "it's the owner" camp.

BTW a very interesting show, "The Dog Whisperer", is running a lot on a HD channel now. Although the guy can be a little hammy at times, he loves Rotties and Pits and can really handle them. Well worth a watch if you get a chance.

Bob

My dad was the original dog whisperer, my mom always said he talked dog.

He taught me well about dogs and life. Anyone who watches the Dog Whisperer will be lightyears ahead of any dog "trainer". He knows dogs.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

Originally posted by 7.62foryou:
Wheelgunner you have my E-mail address if you email me I'll give you my cell #.

I thought I put it in my address book, but cannot find it. When you have a chance, send me an e-mail (my address is in my profile) and I will add it again.
Thanks,
WG840

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Virtually all of the half dozen or so pit bulls that I have known have been completely anti-social and required to be locked up when someone not in the immediate family was present. Whatever else they are, they do not belong in the suburbs in a small yard where they are constantly trying to get out and can eat children when they do.

 

[7.62foryou]

Originally posted by HOUSTON RICK:
Virtually all of the half dozen or so pit bulls that I have known have been completely anti-social and required to be locked up when someone not in the immediate family was present. Whatever else they are, they do not belong in the suburbs in a small yard where they are constantly trying to get out and can eat children when they do.

The wrong animal was locked up Rick.

 

[Photog]

I am not a pit bull fan. If they do bite, the bite seems to be far more "vicious" if you will, than a normal dog. I have worked several years in a hospital, a lot of time in the ER. I have seen many animal bites and the ones from a pit bull seem to be more serious on the average.
A personal story..a neighbor across the street had a pit bull. I came home from shooting one day and my daughter, 4 or so at the time, came out to see me. The dog was across the street in the neighbor's yard, and was unleashed. He saw my daughter and started watching her. He then started to come across the street, his eyes fixed on my daughter. The owners seemed oblivious.
I grabbed my Marlin 45-70 and loaded two rounds in the magazine and then chambered one. The noise of the rifle action and my yelling at my daughter to come to me slowly must have made the owner look up. When he looked up, his dog was about 10 yards from my daughter and me, and I had the rifle up and had the dog in my sights.
The owner saw this and flipped out. He ran over yelling at the dog and actually jumped onto the dog and held it down.
He had a few choice words to say to me. I handed the rifle to my wife to unload and she took it and my daughter into the house. I then proceeded to tell the owner that if that dog ever came onto my property again I would kill it. After that, the dog was alwways on a leash or chain when it was out.

 

[red14]

Anyone who has a child needs to keep them from dogs until they know how to treat them.

Usually dogs bite when they are scared. Children pull ears, tails, gouge eyes, scream into ears, put hands into their mouths, etc.

ALL dogs (any animal including humans) can bite, if they are abused enough. Pits, Rotties, Dobies, are big strong dogs. They have incredible strength in their jaws. I have been bitten by many little dogs, no big ones.

No one should EVER leave a toddler alone with any dog, ever.

If someone stuck a finger in my eye, if I didn't have hands, I'D bite them!

 

[cusingeorge]

Originally posted by stiab:
It was in the news this week that one of the military bases in NC (can't recall which, several were mentioned in the article) has outlawed pit bulls in military housing areas. There was a fatality involving a three year old child. I wonder why you seldom read about this happening with a Collie?

Because a collie, labrador or other "family friendly" dog does not sell newspapers or get the TV stations ratings. We had a reporter here in Springfield report an attack by a "pit bull". Turned out to be a Shar Pei. How far off can you get? The two breeds look nothing alike. This is a great example of the media looking for ratings.

 

[Douglas Haig]

I as browsing thru an on-line target company's site. They actually had lifesize Rottweiller photograph targets. I thought now there is a good idea.

 

[jframe]

I agree that pits are beautiful dogs. I love the stance that a properly bred pit has. I also respect their abilities. I also think that they ARE more predisposed to attacks on humans than other dogs. I mean, how many times do you hear of a Shih Tzu attack? Small dogs can be every bit as deadly and aggressive. Every pit I've ever been around has been what the owner called a "properly bred" dog. With that being the case, why has each one of these animals showed at least a small sign of aggression towards me? I think these dogs can really sense apprehension in humans, and I admit to being that way around these. I feel these dogs know it, and tend to take advantage of this emotion, and turn it against the person. Make no mistake, they ARE great looking dogs, but have no business being a legal breed in my opinion. I always have felt better knowing I was armed around them, and would not hesitate to use it at all. I've never felt that way around any other dog, other than possibly a few of the Chows.

 

[7.62foryou]

Originally posted by Photog:
I am not a pit bull fan. If they do bite, the bite seems to be far more "vicious" if you will, than a normal dog. I have worked several years in a hospital, a lot of time in the ER. I have seen many animal bites and the ones from a pit bull seem to be more serious on the average.
A personal story..a neighbor across the street had a pit bull. I came home from shooting one day and my daughter, 4 or so at the time, came out to see me. The dog was across the street in the neighbor's yard, and was unleashed. He saw my daughter and started watching her. He then started to come across the street, his eyes fixed on my daughter. The owners seemed oblivious.
I grabbed my Marlin 45-70 and loaded two rounds in the magazine and then chambered one. The noise of the rifle action and my yelling at my daughter to come to me slowly must have made the owner look up. When he looked up, his dog was about 10 yards from my daughter and me, and I had the rifle up and had the dog in my sights.
The owner saw this and flipped out. He ran over yelling at the dog and actually jumped onto the dog and held it down.
He had a few choice words to say to me. I handed the rifle to my wife to unload and she took it and my daughter into the house. I then proceeded to tell the owner that if that dog ever came onto my property again I would kill it. After that, the dog was alwways on a leash or chain when it was out.

And you blame the dog?!?!? I'm done. I feel like I'm at a Brady gun control rally trying to voice facts about firearms to someone who got shot in the head and lived. Bite harder than normal dogs GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Lassie bites harder than Benji which ones normal? I'm about to violate the rules.

 

[bk43]

Originally posted by jframe:
I think these dogs can really sense apprehension in humans, and I admit to being that way around these.

You can count on that. Coco, the Akita I mentioned in my other post senses that a friend of ours down the street is afraid of big dogs. He tries to be her friend by giving her cookies and such but she senses his fear and it causes her to tense up. With a dog that is not under control that tension can escalate into aggression. I feel it's my job to see that doesn't happen but I can't make the tension go away since he's the one causing that. Interestingly, she loves the guy's wife, and mother who lives with them, and they don't even give her treats.

Bob

 

[fsprandy]

I'm new here and sure don't want to start off on the wrong foot. I do have some experience with the breed and agree they are very misunderstood. In my opinion there are strong parallels between the misunderstanding of Pit's and the misunderstanding of guns. Here are some of the similarities I thought up:

- good people don't have them, criminals do
- no one needs them
- they are most dangerous to the families of the people that own them
- special training and a license should be required to have them
- all dogs/guns are not alike, some are much more dangerous than others
- they have no use and there is no reason for them to exist
- they should be banned

 

[Wheelgunner840]

Howdy fsprandy. Welcome to the forum. You jumped right in on a controvercial thread. At least your not shy!

Enjoy the forum. We are always in disagreement with each other, but most of us keep things civil. Glad to have ya!

WG840

 

[crofoot629]

Here is a Pit owner who clearly gets it.

I own 3 APBT's, Ive owned or been around this breed in one way or another for the last 20yrs. Owning these dogs is very much the same responsibility as owning a hand gun. One must be held to a higher standard of ownership with this breed strictly due to the dogs massive potential to to take care of itself. A properly bred and RAISED pit is a thing of beauty and would never be a willful man biter. Animal aggressivness and tolerance is a crap shoot at best, these dogs usually will not be dominated by other animals. This reason alone is why keeping these dogs secured at all times without fail is of the utmost importance. These dogs are fearless,loyal and will defend to the death without hesitation. Sounds like alot like what people claim to be here. The pitbull is the epitome of the American spirit and we are more like them than we realize. As far as fools exploiting and adulteration of this great breed, both the trainer and animal should be eliminated from the breeding line right away.

This is Thumper and his attitude towards a squirrel on his turf.

They are an aggressive breed. Good luck keeping your kids safe around a Pit.

Emory

 

[Photog]

7.62foryou...not sure what your question is regarding...do I blame the dog for coming over to my property and apparently going after my child? I blame the dog and the owner! I have had many dogs and they were never let to run loose.They were always under my control.
As for biting harder? Well, a great white shark bites harder than a goldfish...a 44 Magnum has more energy than a .22CB cap...it was a comparison. If you will read reports of PitBull vs other dog bites, most, and THAT IS MOST, NOT ALL, dogs will bite and let go. A PB tends to clamp on and hold on for a bit.
Yes all dogs bite, from tea cup poodles to bull mastiffs, some harder than others..I will give you that.
As for the blame...I really could give a crap who is to blame, dog or owner, but when a dog was coming at my then 4 year old daughter, while she WAS IN MY YARD, and the dog ENTERED MY YARD, I didn't, or wouldn't now, take time to decide where to place blame, for the same reason that if someone is in my home, uninvited, possibly about to do harm to me or a loved one, I wouldn't take time to figure out where to fix the blame on him or her, or to blame his or her's parents for their actions. It is, and was, about protecting my family from a threat.
So again, sorry if I ruffled your feathers a bit, but it is about my family.

 

[7.62foryou]

Photog, Don't apoligize for protecting your family. I understand, you might have given the dog more of a chance than I would have. I wouldn't expect anyone to be assigning blame at that time. But you were assigning blame as you wrote your post well after the incident with time to think about blame yet you still blame the dog for the owners failings. That and other errr......statements made in this thread is what ticked me off. I said I was done and I meant it but I didn't want your apoligy to go unanswered that would be rude which I am not, mostly anyway. Have a good night, God Bless.

 

[mod29]

Pit Bull threads..lol.
Almost as good as bear threads!

Bottom line:
Pits are powerful animals that are bred for aggressiveness, and caution must be taken with them.
I have no doubt they can have many good traits, but don't be fooled into thinking 'my pit wouldn't hurt a fly'.
I have read many accounts of bewildered owners, wondering how their Pit (or Rott, for that matter) could attack a person (or another animal) with such aggressiveness. Check the breeding of your 'pet'. There's where the answer to that question lies.

ALL working-class breeds need to be treated with caution, socialized, trained..and handled with respect.
These animals can do a lot of damage, and quickly.

I have owned a few working-class dogs over the years, and learned it is a serious responsibility to own and keep an animal of this type. My dogs were naturally aggressive, territorial and protective. I would not let my dogs run loose; I kept them under leash-control at all times unless there was no chance of meeting someone during a walking session.

-Jim

 

[stiab]

The reason the Chow was like that was because it only saw your dad as a leader. He saw everyone else as under his control.

But that is the NATURE OF A CHOW. One master only, no respect for other household members. I know from personal experience. I took in a stray chow puppy who was starved and dirty, did the breed research, treated it as a pet, and all of a sudden with no provocation it bit a family friend who visited and was ignoring the dog. This happened in the back yard where the dog was not threatened or cornered. Talk to the Chow rescue organizations, they know full well and will make it quite clear that the chow is not for every home.

 

[gunsmith11]

If you want a buddy,,, get a Minature Shnuazer no bites, no shedding and unconcloned lottally

 

[red14]

I must say, I know less about Chows than many other breeds. And, I have never been around any, much less own one. I will trust your judgement on this.

My point is, the owner or master is responsible for the animal. Any natural aggressive animal, with no training, or one who is abused, will be dangerous.

 

[MrPhil]

Frankly, I think pit bulls are ugly. I don't like their shape, I don't like their short fur. I went to the county animal shelter to adopt a dog and found, to my dismay, that well over half were some kind of pit bull mix. Seems a lot of pit owners don't believe in spaying/neutering their dogs.

I did adopt Trooper. He's a LabraShepherdor. Big and black. A very good boy.

 

[mississippi revolverman]

I am not a pit fan must be honest. Have had Airdales, Dobermans, Rotweilers and German shepards through the years all good dogs and breeds. My little Cairn terrier when he crossed the 10 yr line bit more people, me included than all the dogs together

 

[Andy Griffith]

I've always wanted a large, white Siberian Tiger to roam around my house at night.

I'd put some signs around my place that say "Beware of the cat!"

The first thug to come through a window would only hear the licking of the cat's lips!

It'd also be great for salesmen or anyone that tries to come to my door.

It's called a MPC (Multi-purpose cat).

 

[DeathGrip]

Pit Bull Owners: misunderstood

 

[normanvin]

Originally posted by 7.62foryou:

Originally posted by stiab:
It was in the news this week that one of the military bases in NC (can't recall which, several were mentioned in the article) has outlawed pit bulls in military housing areas. There was a fatality involving a three year old child. I wonder why you seldom read about this happening with a Collie?

Because the people who own collies are different from some of the A-holes who own pitbulls. In many cases they are the same kind of people who misuse firearms!

I beg to differ but.

I was at the flea market last summer. We take our three dogs every Sunday during the summer. Two Saints and a Rotti.

This woman was walking a beautiful collie. This woman could barely contain the Collie while it lunged at every dog that passed by.

This woman took great offense because my wife told her that if she could not control her dog that she should leave. This was after the Collie lunged at my wife's 130lb. Rottie, which stayed on command.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

Gunsmith 11,

+1. I've got 3 and they are my true pals.