plan for an armed intruder/hostage situation

[Stonecove]

I just received an email from someone I know who works for a large non-profit organization that has responsibility for over 100 children a day for after school programs. What with all the talk of Connecticut tragedy, she wanted to know what was the organizations plan for an armed intruder.

Here is the plan for an armed intruder/hostage situation

-Call 911
-Take Cover immediately
-Instruct children to remain on the floor until police give instructions
-Cooperate with the armed individual. Do not approach them. Move SLOWLY.
-Do not try to be a hero and overpower or threaten suspect.
-Do what is possible to ensure the safety of the members and staff.
-Notify the Director
-If person is an intruder, ask for ID and direct or accompany to the office.
-report suspect's location at the faclity, type of weapon and provide a description.
-If hostage situation develops, remove all bystanders from the area.
-Take attendance.

I won't include the emailers comments, but would be interested in hearing your opinions.
Thanks,
Stonecove

 

[jaykellogg]

A lot of classroom doors have windows. If this is the case, would have the children line up along the wall where they cannot be seen from the outside of the door.

Once an intruder enters the campus space the campus should be placed on lockdown. Are classroom doors routinely locked?

When I worked for one factory, we had a place assigned in case we had to evacuate the building (fire). Each group had someone assigned to determine if the entire group was there. In case of a fire, you don't really want to send someone back inside to look for someone. It was considered importand to know who was/wasn't outside.

 

[Hillbilly77]

One of the basic ideas that our country was founded on was the right to defend oneself against aggression. It's saddening to think that now we have a checklist to run down to teach us how to be sheep, but no plan at all for defense of self, fellow man, or property.
Even our govt. has a policy of not negotiating with terrorists, but somehow in our private lives, they expect us to do just that. Very sad.

 

[moe l.]

Translation: cower in a corner and hope the police will save you.

 

[Hillbilly77]

Translation: cower in a corner and hope the police will save you.

Here's a little snippet I came across...

My old grandpa said to me ‘Son, there comes a time in every man’s
life when he stops bustin’ knuckles and starts bustin’ caps and usually
it’s when he becomes too old to take an *** whoopin.’
I don’t carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep
from being killed.

I don’t carry a gun to scare
people. I carry a gun because sometimes this
world can be a scary place. I don’t carry a gun because I’m
paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.
I don’t carry a gun because I’m evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to
see the evil in the world.
I don’t carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the
limitations of government..

I don’t carry a gun because
I’m angry. I carry a gun so that I don’t have to spend the rest
of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
I don’t carry a gun because
I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed,
and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don’t carry a gun because I am a cowboy.
I carry a gun because, when I die and go
to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don’t carry a gun to make me feel
like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take
care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don’t carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
I don’t carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

Police protection is an oxymoron.
Free citizens must protect themselves.
Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call
someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I’m too young to die and too old to take an *** whoopin’…..

author unknown (but
obviously brilliant)

 

[feralmerril]

First call 911, after that with the factor of protecting kids no one size fits all. Where is the threat? What have we for cover etc?
My biggest pet peeve has always been being told to comply automaticly when someone waves a gun. If we could hit the reset button and tell those kids to scatter odds are some would have survived. It couldnt have been any worse.

 

[moe l.]

I've been under the impression the WORST thing you could do is comply with a gunman. At that point you could trade places with a sheep at the slaughter house because you'd typically have the same odds of survival. If it were me, I'd run like hell and take as many with me. We all know how difficult it is to hit a moving target. At least you'd have a chance at survival.

 

[H Richard]

There is no one plan that fits every situation and location. They must be written site by site and with input from local first responders.

 

[jaykellogg]

I've been under the impression the WORST thing you could do is comply with a gunman.

I am sure they are trying to buy some time till the police arrive.

 

[mc5aw]

My former school district ran a Code Z drill once a year, in the event of an intruder in the school building. It basically instructed staff to lock each classroom door, move students to a part of the classroom away from the door, wait for further instructions via the intercom. Should an intruder have been able to gain access to a classroom, I would have been tasked with defending my students and myself with a fistful of dry board markers and two dozen tattered copies of "Catcher in the Rye". The Code Z plan was woefully reliant on taking cover and anxiously awaiting for first responders to get on scene to identify and neutralize the threat. It was a rather unrealistic safety plan in my opinion.

 

[P&R Fan]

There is a large difference in what adults, whether armed or unarmed would do in this situation and what someone caring for 100 kids would do. They will HAVE to comply in some manner with the intruders demands, since a teacher will certainly be unarmed. This is a nightmare scenario, and I don't know that there is a standard response that would cover everything.

All the above suggestions are good. I will add one more....Pray....HARD.
Jim

 

[armenius]

Brings to mind the old poster "In case of nuclear air raid."Several instructions such as move away from window etc. and ended with" bend over grasp your ankles and kiss your ---goodbye"

 

[venomballistics]

ranks as option Z
Option A ... get the little lambs OUT and as far AWAY as possible.
Option B ... if option A is met with resistance, break as many bones and rupture as many sensitive glands as possible or die trying while the children continue the pilgrimage to safety.
Option C ... Offer to help the intruder in achieving his objective. IF you talk a gun off the nut case PLUG HIM TILL THE MAG RUNS DRY
Option D ... call his parents and report his behavior.
Option E ... Call your parents and report yours.

 

[Old TexMex]

I do feel a drill to remove the target from the threat is primary. With a large group this is difficult, but can be done if one has control of the building and all are familiar with it. Heavy, lockable doors to classrooms(we had these when I was a kid nearly sixty years ago in hurricane country) and retreat rooms. But PREVENTION is key.
The primary fault with the concept is assuming "HOSTAGE SITUATION".
Assuming "the bad man will be nice if I do as he says" will probably turn out badly. What tactics are going to work that are worth risking the lives of the hostages? It's a huge disadvantage.
Avoiding a hostage situation is primarily accomplished by hardening a target. Providing an armed guard, and locked doors, rather than accepting the scenario of being taken hostage is what works.
Introducing a hole card, an armed guard, short circuits the threat in most scenarios.
Thanks, God Bless

 

[feralmerril]

The best thing is a trained armed teacher or guard. But what do I know?
That or disarm everyone in the country except for cops and military. Laws were broke in every shooting. All nuts will obey every new law and regulation.

 

[David LaPell]

I've been under the impression the WORST thing you could do is comply with a gunman. At that point you could trade places with a sheep at the slaughter house because you'd typically have the same odds of survival. If it were me, I'd run like hell and take as many with me. We all know how difficult it is to hit a moving target. At least you'd have a chance at survival.

I always love seeing the official police line when someone fights back against an armed robber and they say you are better off giving in. I got my pistol permit in 1995 because I was working overnights at a convenient store and every cop I knew would tell me to get one because by the time they got there it would be all over. Amazing that two weeks after I left the place was robbed.

I once worked for a large industrial mill and there worry was someone walking into the front office and either shooting up the place or taking the company President hostage. None of us were armed even though the head of security, the assistant head, and the head of operations were all ex cops. The President of the company's brilliant plan was that if someone went up front with a gun to send one of us with a camera to videotape what was transpiring. (Not kidding that was the plan). My boss refused to do it because the fact that our uniforms were strikingly similar to the local PD and we might catch a bullet and certainly would be in the way of the local cops and would put someone at risk. The response of having the head of security carrying a pistol concealed of the head of operations carrying concealed was laughed at because they thought too many bad things could happen.

I have worked doing higher end security for many places before and since getting into law enforcement and what I will tell you is that no company, school whatever likes to spend the money on security and when the budget gets tight it is the first thing to go because it is looked as being not necessary. We had a local school after Columbine get a security person, made sure entry was being made by the right people, but after the first school budget, that person was let go. There was a local department officer sent to a school as a resource officer, once money got tight they were let go. I worked part time for a company that made medical supplies which utilized a lot of gold and silver being on hand. We would find the safe which housed all the precious metals in it left open all the time, employees hanging out, kids trespassing etc. When I first started there everyone working there were ex or current cops and all was well. Then the budget got cut and the company got cheap and when I left I was the last person who had any real experience. Low and behold problems started including thefts, even by some of the security help who were little more than minimum wage slaves. Eventually they canned them all and the last I heard stuff is disappearing all the time now and the company can't figure out why.
When I worked at a psych hospital which was pretty upscale and most patients were there because they are private pay I found out exactly what happens when money trumps security interests. We had escapes all the time but because of the strict rules after they reached a certain point we were under orders not to follow. One guy got fired simply because a girl was trying to climb a fence and she was going to fall so he reached out and tried to catch her. (this place had children and relatives of state senators and the like) He put a black and blue mark on her arm where he caught her and even though there were witnesses they still tossed him. I left because because I was responsible for the security of the whole hospital while I was working and to save money they added on more jobs like having us collect the garbage from the whole place, all the while being told if an emergency comes up to respond ASAP.
The problem is that most places look at and hire security simply because it lowers their insurance and they fail to look at it from an actual point of stopping anything. Look at your mall cops and places like amusement parks and fairs. One job I had was working armed work collecting money with another employee at an amusement park. It was nothing to collect $30000 or more every night. The company didn't like the complaints it was getting from the public seeing armed guards (I wore a Model 19 and another guy who was a retired LEO who carried a Model 15). Eventually they got rid of us and went to unarmed guards but still people collecting all that money. We were paid well but the new guys were making $6.25 an hour in 1998. Thank God nothing ever happened.
Schools are making a big show of beefing up security right now and towns by having security, cops in every school whatever, but when it comes time to pass the new budgets and the towns and boards see what all that overtime is costing they will drop it, because nothing bad happened there. I don't know what the answer is, banning guns is the first kneejerk reaction as usual and they may get their wish the way some of the NRA backed politicians are already caving. In the end something else will happen and they will demand another law and so on and so forth. Should teachers be armed, I don't know I have seen some of the teachers out there and don't see it. More liberal places like NYC, California and Chicago won't allow that. I think though that people need to get their heads out of their backsides and take security more seriously. They have made the schools this way be their liberal policies and now they need to figure out how to fix them.

 

[David LaPell]

I am sure they are trying to buy some time till the police arrive.

And we have seen exactly how many people can die in the process of waiting for the cavalry to arrive. Too much has been made of calling 911 and now 20 kids are dead because the mindset of relying on others to save you has played out.

 

[GaryS]

That is essentially the recommendation of the experts for airplane hijackings prior to Sept. 11, 2001.

It was predicated on the assumption that the hijackers/intruders wanted hostages for bartering purposes. It was based on past experience where hostage negotiators and special operations teams were successful in wearing down hostage takers or if worst came to worst killing them while minimizing the risk of harm to the innocents.

As we learned on Sept. 11, some people don't want hostages, they want scalps. So, the thinking and tactics changed starting that day to fight back, even if people die it's better than being slaughtered like sheep.

The same goes for mass murder at schools, mall, churches, or any other public gathering. ------ didn't take hostages, he broke in and murdered his victims. -------- at Virginia Tech took hostages only long enough to kill them. ------- in Arizona killed people, he wasn't interested in hostages either. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

The plan you outline assumes that the intruder/hostage taker will meekly submit to directions by authority figures. If they were willing to do that, they wouldn't be intruders or hostage takers.

Here is thought.

Secure the kids as best as possible.
Find and engage the intruder.
Ambush is the best way, so be as quiet as possible.
If you have a gun and he won't submit to your orders, shoot him to the ground.
If you don't have a gun, a baseball bat is an innocuous item that no one objects to you having in your classroom. When applied to the arms or head or an intruder it will cause him to stop for at least a second. Take the opportunity to repeatedly hit him until he falls to the ground.

Don't be a passive victim.

Every employee of the school should be trained in this.

The ideal would be for a willing cadre of teachers, administrators, and staff to be trained and equipped with firearms.

 

[MaximumLawman]

When the police get there they need to move fast. Anything you can do to facilitate that would be a good idea. Communication is also important. It's important for everyone at the police department, not just one or two guys, to know what you're going to do in the event of an emergency. Various plans call for teachers to have an emergency backpack or briefcase in the classrooms that they can grab and go. Ideally there would be a gun in there in my perfect world, but that's not going to happen. Other stuff would be first aid supplies, emergency contact info. for each kid who could potentially be in the class all day, etc. Also, if a room is locked and secure, someone can arrange a predetermined signal to let the cops known so they don't waste time on that room. Something they can see as they're running down the hall. Stakeholders should probably meet at least quarterly to share ideas and notes.

 

[jimmyj]

CALL 911 !
what will be the responsive if the Police is 10-7 on another high priority call ??