Plated HBWC

[Toeknee]

Hi all, just got my hands on some 148gr plated HBWC I have only ever used the swaged HBWC in front of 2.5 grains of Bulleseye, as these are plated bullts will I have to increase my powder load, I am shooting a Model 52.
Bullseye is all I have at the moment, I realise this question may have been asked before so please forgive me if it has..

Tony...

 

[4barrel]

I would not use a plated bullet in a target 38 auto. If you have a squib load they are very hard to remove. It takes about 2 tenths more bullseye to get down the barrel in target 38 special because of the drag. You can use a lead dewc if hbwcs are hard to find. Even a bnwc turned around will work ok in a pinch as long as they are 141-148 grain.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have shot a considerable number of them over 2.7 BE with no complaints. I have also shot them in .357 cases over 3.0 BE with good results. As I recall Berry's (who makes a lot of plated bullets) recommends using lead bullet loading data for them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, increase the charge by a few tenths of a grain and go from there looking for accuracy. Lyman 50 lists a charge range of 3.1gr to 3.5gr BE with a 150gr Cast WC bullet.

If it were my M52 I would stick with lead bullets and shoot the plated bullets in other guns/revolvers.

 

[stansdds]

Plated bullets are swaged lead bullets with a very thin copper plating. They will have a slightly higher coefficient of friction that plain swaged or cast lead. Bump up your powder charge 0.1-0.2 gr. and you should be fine.

 

[gwpercle]

Load a few at 2.5 and make sure they function and meet accuracy requirements . They should but lead bullets are more slippery than plated and you might want to bump the load up to 2.6 or 2.7 grains BE to get back to your lead bullet performance .

My standard load is 2.7 with either lead or plated .
When testing keep a rod handy just in case a bullet sticks .
Gary

 

[Carrier]

I shoot a lot of these out of 38 and 357 revolvers with 4.25” to 8 3/8” barrels using same load data as I use for Hornady and Speer 148 lead HBWC bullets in both 38 and 357 cases. I tried going higher in charge and accuracy didn’t get better. The Speer and Hornady bullets in my guns are slightly more accurate than the plated I use but for shooting steel they are just fine.

38/357 148 HBWC FCP - CamPro

Opps didn’t see that OP had an auto.

 

[mikld]

OP's question is about a Model 52; Smith & Wesson Model 52 - Wikipedia I would refer to post #2...

 

[Alk8944]

I have shot a considerable number of them over 2.7 BE with no complaints. I have also shot them in .357 cases over 3.0 BE with good results. As I recall Berry's (who makes a lot of plated bullets) recommends using lead bullet loading data for them.

You haven't looked very recently, current recommendation by Berry's is to use lead or jacketed data for bullets of equivalent weight! If you compare most loading tables that list both you will find there is only .1-.2 gr. difference in most cases, hardly enough to make a bit of difference anyway.

 

[BE Mike]

Don't use reloading data for solid wadcutters for 148 gr. hollow base wadcutters. If you over-charge loads for the latter bullet you can get the "skirts blown off".

 

[Toeknee]

Thanks for all the info guys. To answer a coupje of questions, the plated HBWC are far easier for me to obtain living on Vancouver Island than the swaged bullets, also I am no longer a serious bullseye shooter age ( i'm 71 ) has a little to do with it and bad knees that make it almost impossible to maintain a good steady stance but I still enjoy knocking the steel chickens base over apex and the 52 is good for those 5 round rapid fire events, I have a good supply of DEWC loaded that are adequate but these too are now in short supply here thus when I saw the plated HBWC I bought them. I have a 6 inch barrelled 686 that I may use them in with a hotter load and see how they perform in that gun.
Again thanks for all the advice it is much appreciated.

Tony

 

[Qc Pistolero]

As mentionned above,don't use cast data for hbwc;blowing the skirt that will lodge in the barrel and create an obstruction is a very possible thing.
I use 2.7gr700X(which is aprox same burning rate as Bullseye)for either hbwc and cast but use only cast when I bump up the charge to 3.5.

 

[Carrier]

Thanks for all the info guys. To answer a coupje of questions, the plated HBWC are far easier for me to obtain living on Vancouver Island than the swaged bullets, also I am no longer a serious bullseye shooter age ( i'm 71 ) has a little to do with it and bad knees that make it almost impossible to maintain a good steady stance but I still enjoy knocking the steel chickens base over apex and the 52 is good for those 5 round rapid fire events, I have a good supply of DEWC loaded that are adequate but these too are now in short supply here thus when I saw the plated HBWC I bought them. I have a 6 inch barrelled 686 that I may use them in with a hotter load and see how they perform in that gun.
Again thanks for all the advice it is much appreciated.

Tony

Am I right to assume they are Campro HBWC?

 

[Toeknee]

Yes Carrier your assumption is correct, I have a horrible feeling you are going to give me somr negative information.

 

[Carrier]

Yes Carrier your assumption is correct, I have a horrible feeling you are going to give me somr negative information.

No not at all. Like I said previously they are not as accurate for me than Hornady or Speer Lead HBWC but are pretty close. One thing I found is not to go any higher in charge than lead and they work fine. I shoot a lot of Campro bullets in all calibers.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Just a note on a 6" 686 with lead 148's.

My revolver did better in the accuracy dept. with the short 38 case,
even with the bullet jump with the 1/4" shorter OAL setting.

Some like the longer 357 case but as we know, every weapon has it's sweet spot.

Have fun.

 

[mikld]

Just a side note; I have used HBWC for many, many loads and even when experimenting with an upper load, never experienced the "skirt separation". For convenience (and added fun) I now cast my own DEWCs. So, a lot has been spoken about "blowing off HBWC skirts", how many have actually had it happen? And if so, what charges were used? Just wondering because many "warnings" are just repeats of what some have read, but not experienced...

BTW, I started reloading in '69 so I'm not a newcomer and I loaded quite a few HBWC for my 38 Specials and even did the reverse SD loadings. I went to heavier cast bullets and didn't do a lot of experimentation with the HBWC, thus my question...

 

[BE Mike]

Just a side note; I have used HBWC for many, many loads and even when experimenting with an upper load, never experienced the "skirt separation". For convenience (and added fun) I now cast my own DEWCs. So, a lot has been spoken about "blowing off HBWC skirts", how many have actually had it happen? And if so, what charges were used? Just wondering because many "warnings" are just repeats of what some have read, but not experienced...

BTW, I started reloading in '69 so I'm not a newcomer and I loaded quite a few HBWC for my 38 Specials and even did the reverse SD loadings. I went to heavier cast bullets and didn't do a lot of experimentation with the HBWC, thus my question...

As I've always stuck with recommended powder charges for target shooting, I've never had skirt separation. Those soft swaged bullets aren't designed to be pushed hard. I saw the results of skirt separation at Camp Perry several years ago during the Harry Reeves match. There was a lot of head scratching when there were too many holes in the target and it was determined it wasn't a cross fire. I don't know what the gentleman's load was, but I'd say it topped the charts. Skirt separation isn't a myth, like detonation.

 

[mikld]

Thanks for the reply (opinion). I guess was just asking for real life experience. I've read about as much about detonation as I have blowing skirts off, and most are "I heard..." "I read...", but never "It happened to me". Seen pictures of guns alleged to suffer from both situations, but nothing more than internet "reports"...

 

[Toeknee]

I have to admit MIKLD I have never experienced that problem, that said I have only loaded light target loads for short range, nothing heavy. I would think if you are loading heavier loads for hunting or extreme range you would not use a soft swaged lead bullet, hard cast maybe..

Tony..

 

[Toeknee]

No not at all. Like I said previously they are not as accurate for me than Hornady or Speer Lead HBWC but are pretty close. One thing I found is not to go any higher in charge than lead and they work fine. I shoot a lot of Campro bullets in all calibers.

Thanks for the input Carrier..

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have one loading manual for the SPEER 148 gr. HBWC ... 38 Special that

has the soft lead bullet going from 739fps up to 806fps.

The 148 gr. BBWC data goes from 811fps up to 981 fps. (Unique)
out of a K38.

Note:
** Heavier loads are not recommended with hollow base bullets because of the possibility of deformation which might result in gun damage.

 

[mikld]

Most of my loads with the HBWC were the "classic" 2.9-3.0 gr. Bullseye. I loaded many, many rounds for my 38s and 357 Magnum. I don't think I went more than 1/2 gr higher in my experimenting before I moved on to something else. For my more "exciting" lead bullet shooting I cast 98% of my own and use appropriate alloy hardness. I understand in theory, skirts can be blown off soft swaged HBWC, but I have never met anyone that has any experience with the phenomenon.

I've been looking in at reloading forums since 2007 and have seen many things suggested or warned about that while may be a logical theory, are extremely rare or never happen in real life. Many are just repeats of what someone read on another forum. Not criticizing anyone, just wondering...

 

[4barrel]

Most of my loads with the HBWC were the "classic" 2.9-3.0 gr. Bullseye. I loaded many, many rounds for my 38s and 357 Magnum. I don't think I went more than 1/2 gr higher in my experimenting before I moved on to something else. For my more "exciting" lead bullet shooting I cast 98% of my own and use appropriate alloy hardness. I understand in theory, skirts can be blown off soft swaged HBWC, but I have never met anyone that has any experience with the phenomenon.

I've been looking in at reloading forums since 2007 and have seen many things suggested or warned about that while may be a logical theory, are extremely rare or never happen in real life. Many are just repeats of what someone read on another forum. Not criticizing anyone, just wondering...

There are some VERY good posts at the bottom of this page AGAINST plated bullets in an auto. boatbum tells it like it is.
Here are a couple using 3.2 of American Select with a Remington hbwc. That is the bullet stuck in the case with the end gone. Remington hbwcs seem to be a little softer than other brands. I was benching at 25 and my spotter saw this. That lead sliver was stuck behind the bullet hole on the right on shot 10. I have 2 other brands of hbwcs that don't do this. This is a revolver not auto. I posted this a few months ago. 3.1 of bullseye works ok in a wheel gun and A.S.. is listed as slower burning so I thought I would give it a shot. I know the post was about plated plated hbwcs and I have some but they are not as accurate in any of my guns.

 

[mikld]

There are some VERY good posts at the bottom of this page AGAINST plated bullets in an auto. boatbum tells it like it is.
Here are a couple using 3.2 of American Select with a Remington hbwc. That is the bullet stuck in the case with the end gone. Remington hbwcs seem to be a little softer than other brands. I was benching at 25 and my spotter saw this. That lead sliver was stuck behind the bullet hole on the right on shot 10. I have 2 other brands of hbwcs that don't do this. This is a revolver not auto. I posted this a few mounts ago. 3.1 of bullseye works ok in a wheel gun and A.S.. is listed as slower burning so I thought I would give it a shot. I know the post was about plated plated hbwcs and I have some but they are not as accurate in any of my guns.

Thank you 4barrel. Real life experience and photographic proof!