Please answer yes or no.
- Thread starter oldman45
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You know it is silver and has a barrel pointed at officers. There is a half second to make a decision. You also know he is trying to escape at any cost.
Do you fire?
CQB27
US Veteran
I have been a LEO for 15 years. In the .5 second I would have to assess and decide, I would shoot and shoot and shoot.
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From this photo, his stance looks like he's fixing to fire a gun, but what is in his hand isn't so clear. From head on (which I presume is where the LEO is seeing him from), it might look more like a gun. Or less. Or, most likely, it's not that clear in the dark, but the total picture is enough to make the LEO think he's about to get shot. Or maybe you're telling me that this side view is what the second officer sees as his buddy is about to get shot. I see a BG who acts like he has a gun. After fleeing five miles from cops and wrestling himself free from one.
SHOOT.
SHOOT.
TennTony
US Veteran
If the view I have is identical to the picture: No.
MSgt G
US Veteran
BANG, BANG!
I started to let the group play with this one for a while but I see the general mood of the people.
A complete video can be seen at many sites, including the following:
Shooting of marquise hudspeth | SPIKE
The "gun" was a cell phone the perp was threatening to shoot the officers with. He ran a short distance and spun around on the officers a second time before taking flight. As he spun the third time, he was shot a total of eight times in the back, fatally injuring him.
The outcome was the officers were cleared of any wrong doing by the DA, the DOJ and the FBI. A 10 million dollar suit filed by the fmaily against the police department was dismissed by a State Judge. The actions of the guy was ruled suicide by cop.
Anyone interested can google Marquis Hudsmith and read a lot more about it.
A complete video can be seen at many sites, including the following:
Shooting of marquise hudspeth | SPIKE
The "gun" was a cell phone the perp was threatening to shoot the officers with. He ran a short distance and spun around on the officers a second time before taking flight. As he spun the third time, he was shot a total of eight times in the back, fatally injuring him.
The outcome was the officers were cleared of any wrong doing by the DA, the DOJ and the FBI. A 10 million dollar suit filed by the fmaily against the police department was dismissed by a State Judge. The actions of the guy was ruled suicide by cop.
Anyone interested can google Marquis Hudsmith and read a lot more about it.
sipowicz
Member
Yes. He could have been using the phone to call for back-up.
sipowicz
Member
To paraphrase "A Christmas Story"
You'll shoot your ear out.
You'll shoot your ear out.
Yes.
Doesn't look like a gun. But in the heat of the moment, especially in that situation, I would shoot.
Doesn't look like a gun. But in the heat of the moment, especially in that situation, I would shoot.
Knightrider03m
Member
The way that he is holding it and the way that it looks while he is holding it, yes I would have shot.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Fire for effect!
Smith357
US Veteran
Yes
Upon closer look about 5-10 seconds it does not look like a firearm, if I took that much time to study the situation the other officer could be dead and he could be drawing down on me.
Upon closer look about 5-10 seconds it does not look like a firearm, if I took that much time to study the situation the other officer could be dead and he could be drawing down on me.
jframefreak
Member
Yes, I'd shoot.....
Capt Steve
US Veteran
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Given the described situation and the nano second available to make the call...yes, I'd drop him like a bad habit. Suicide by cop is a crappy deal for the officer but it beats going to your partners funeral.
USAF385
US Veteran
Yes, I'd shoot.
That's why you don't bring a cell phone to a gun fight.
That's why you don't bring a cell phone to a gun fight.
gregintenn
Member
There's an app for THAT????
Alk8944
US Veteran
From the perspective of retiring after 21 years as a LEO, anyone displaying anything in a manner obviously intending to be threatening and to make the target believe it is a gun he is threatening you with needs to be shot as soon as the threat is perceived. No amount of Monday-morning quarterbacking changes this. No one has a legal or moral obligation or requirement to allow the person making the threat to fire the first shot! If it is night, the object is shiny and being pointed at a person in a threatening manner, then it has to be assumed to be a gun.
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bigt5150
Member
I'm not a cop but given the entire situation.......I'd empty my mag!
you got to learn the rules of engagement...................
YouTube - Cool Hand Luke "Failure To Communicate."
YouTube - Cool Hand Luke "Failure To Communicate."
Crazy K38
Member
he would have been dead, you want to make me believe you have a gun, then just act like it, I don't take those kinds of chances, I have a wife and kids
BarbC
Member
I know someone who was involved in a similar scenario. People came running past the officers yelling, "He has a gun!" The guy came out with his hand pointing through his pocket. The officers opened fire and killed him.
It turned out that he didn't have a gun and of course there was a court case, which was settled.
Some people have a death wish and then are surprised when it's granted.
It turned out that he didn't have a gun and of course there was a court case, which was settled.
Some people have a death wish and then are surprised when it's granted.
Very true. Then the family of the terminally stupid begins filing lawsuits.
I started this thread to give people something to think about. Things are not always as they seem and when something happens, it will not be pleasant.
I would have shot this guy the first time he took a stance, the officers there used restraint.
Still I wonder what would have happened if there had not been dash cameras showing the events. Even with them, there is an uproar that got a police chief to retire, the officers are having to deal with lawsuits as individuals, the media brings this up and hurts the image of the city and much more. If the dashcam was not there, the officers would have likely went to jail.
A similar incident, but the elderly man did have a gun, took place 60 miles from here last year. No dashcam but suddenly there were 31 witnesses that saw two officers shoot the old man down. Of course the man's gun was found along with a lot more evidence and they were cleared by the DOJ, FBI and their own dept. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton is still coming to town promoting their views.
Think what an individual would be going through as a civilian.
Cocked & Locked
Member
...yes...!
palmetto99
Member
This fellow is going to get shot. He may not have a gun, but his movements would be viewed as a threat by almost anyone.
jframe
Member
Yes, I would shoot. The biggest problem with having to hesitate so long these days, is that most people are not only weighing a human life, they are also weighing litigation. It's a damned shame that it's come down to the fact that you also have to worry about losing everything you own as well as your life while you are trying to defend it.
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Based on what I can see in the picture- undoubtedly.
