Please HELP!!!cyl stop torsion spring install???

[Darkcloudz]

Hello,
I know there are some serious collectors out there who will understand what Im talking about. I needed to do a thorough cleaning on a Pre 36 from 1956-57 and it doesn't have the typical cylinder stop spring and pin it has a double bent torsion spring. I have tried to figure out the proper reinstallation of this thing for hours and have searched every book I have on revolvers and got nothing. If I had a closeup picture of one installed Im hopeful I could put in in. Plus the tiny spring seems rare and the one I have looks worn but will hopefully be up to the J frames duty as a collectible not shooter as I may shoot it someday but mostly have it for treasure. If you could tell me anything that would me most appreciated. Thank you, all the best

 

[armorer951]

I believe the pigtail spring fits down over the frame pin that the stop rides on. Does the spring have a 90 degree bend on the end of one leg?

 

[Darkcloudz]

yes it does. Its just like a clothes pin spring with 2 bent ends one is bent 2x like the ens has another 32nd of an inch bend on the end of it. The job of it is to keep the pressure on the cylinder stop keeping it into the cylinder. There is usually just a regular small coil spring with a pin in it for this but I guess they did it for a couple years in mthe middle 50s with I frame and J frame pistols. Mine is a chiefs Special pre 36 .38. Thank you

 

[armorer951]

Is one "leg" of the pigtail a bit longer? If so, I think the long end lays against the frame just above and behind the stop stud, and the other shorter end is torsioned so that it fits under the ball of the stop to provide upward tension.

Does the spring look like this one?

 

[Darkcloudz]

yes thats it

 

[WR Moore]

Learn something every day if you pay attention. Thanks.

 

[Darkcloudz]

I tried that and its not how it works. If you do that then the ball cant go up thru the frame. Its very small, the cylinder stop is very small too not like a regular 36 stop. I see in a picture that both arms are supposed to be in same area the spring goes over the stud then cylinder stop, then the arms are upwards. From what I can see is they both rest behind the large part of the cylinder stop at the base and one on stop has the double bend the single bend rests against the frame wall nearest to the screw hole that keeps the cylinder fold out arm in and face plate. Thanks. What I really need is to see a close up picture to make sure. I have it in that way but now the trigger and action feels crunchy. Its working but I know something is wrong. ???losing my mind with this one

 

[armorer951]

What if you mount the spring on the stud with the legs up, and then spread the legs out to form a "V". Would the front leg with the small bend then hook under the stop just behind the ball and provide upward tension? The other non bent leg facing the front would be trapped under the frame in front of the stop stud. (to the right as you're looking down) This is with the spring under the stop.

 

[Protocall_Design]

I have never seen this before, so wild *** guess. It looks like the cyl. stop is made to have one leg of the spring pushing on the lower front cutout of the cyl. stop.

With the legs of the spring pointing down, I wonder if the other leg is compressed and tensioned by the end of the yoke pivot pin?

 

[Darkcloudz]

no cause the spring in vectored or powered to pull inward not outward so it wouldnt go up. It would break it. Ive been looking at the only 2 other forum questions people wrote about the same issue and problem. It looks like I might have it right. I typed in cylinder stop torsion spring and it brought me there. One shows pics and stuff and I followed what they said. I think its ok, the only thing is now its stuck in single action mode. The trigger is a little gritty but everything works fine I just dont get what the double bend is for as it isnt hooked to anything unless its for the face plate to not rub on just a sharp end of a spring which is possible. Dont worry about it. I do appreciate your help thank you very much. Its just a stupid way to do things thats why they changed it. All the best

 

[armorer951]

If you could post a couple of close up photos of how it's supposed to fit, I'd appreciate it. Thanks

 

[jafa100]

I am having the same problem on a J frame Airweight. I hope someone can post a pic. Thanks.

 

[armorer951]

Are you needing info on the cylinder stop spring or the hand torsion spring?

 

[Darkcloudz]

I cant post a picture of mine cause it still isn't right so I left it out till I can get someone that has a pre 36 from 56-57' so they can take a closeup pic. Thats all I need to figure it out. I squeezed it in, but it is very gritty when I pull the trigger so I think its wrong. I bought a couple in case I ruin one. All the people here Im sure many have a gun with this type of spring in it. Very frustrating. Thank you for trying tho

 

[handejector]

Drop the spring onto the stud with the "Tab" on the left, and pointed up. Let the right leg rest on the recess for the sideplate.

Then, you drop the cyl stop onto the stud and make sure the tab is hooked on the front of the cyl stop.
Put slight downward pressure on the cyl stop and then pull the straight right leg of the spring to the left so it will clear the sideplate recess and go down. You will have to use something like a small screwdriver to pull the spring leg to the left.
It is a PITA till you do it once or twice, and then you'll be surprised how easy it is.

Edited to add----
I did not think I had one, and then I remembered a Pre 35....
Kinda hard to see, but might help.

 

[armorer951]

Thank you sir. The photographs greatly help illustrate the install. I was clueless on this one.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Me too. It's like what I thought, but no way to know without the pictures. Haven't seen that one before. Learn something new every day.

 

[Hondo44]

Compliments of our host, Lee from 2018:


"Installing the early style Model of 1953 torsion spring used on the cyl stop with the offset leg:

My first advice is to put the gun in a 1 gal size Ziploc bag with both hands inside the bag as well while installing the stop and spring as an assembly.

Correct positioning is the two coils go over the stop stud and the legs go down like an upside down V, close to how it looks above. So the leg on the right with one bend rests against the front of the frame cut where the 5th screw (I & J frame screw count) would be entering if there was one. The rear leg with two bends rests in the lower corner at the FRONT of the stop.

Post #17 here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...2-long-3rd-change.html?posted=1#post140144821

Remember the spring shown in yellow below goes behind the cyl stop:

Photo by handejector


Both legs of the spring shown in yellow below go in front of the cyl stop:
When I assemble the spring, I place it under the cyl stop with its hole aligned with and on top of the coils, with rear leg engaged at the front of the stop, so it's sort of captured under the stop, then start the assembly over the stud.

As I begin to push it down onto the stud with left hand, the stop ball is pivoted down to clear the bottom of the cyl window, and my right hand thumbnail (or small screwdriver blade) puts tension on the front leg so it'll slip into position as the assembly is pushed down onto the stud.

As you can see, the torsion spring is at full tension during this process! Hence why it was changed to a simple coil spring with a pocket in the front of the stop and one in the frame cutout where the 5th screw used to be.

Hope this helps."

 

[Darkcloudz]

Thats what I did.It just feels crunchy now when I pull the trigger but maybe something else is sticking. my hammer is a little wonky because the hole for the pin is worn and everyone just about filed down the hammer so it would be easy to pull out and not get caught on holster, pants, etc... so Im having a tough time finding the correct one as it has a different mainspring setup than the regular 36. The back of the hammer has a little hole instead of a pawl where a tension spring hooks up on each side of the pawl. They are super expensive to find a non ground down hammer. I just want it to be all original even though its only like 93% finish. Its not a gun Im going to be packing. I have plenty of more modern ones. I have a 36-2 so that would be used before this. Those pictures made everything plain. Thank you so much. all the best.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Can you show us a picture of the hammer and mainspring in the gun? I may (or may not) have one that will work.