Please help Identify

[Pawnguy]

Hi. I recently purchased a S&W revolver, in 38 s&w ctg.
The serial number is 996xxx . I believe it was part of a lend lease program. I believe to Austrailia by some of the armorers marks. It is Stamped United States Property. Is this a pre victory? Or a 1905 change 4? Thanks in advance

 

[Kurusu]

Is it blued or Parkerized? Smooth grips or chequered?

I think that in that serial # range it should have a V on the other side of the lanyard ring, if there is a lanyard ring, to be a Victory.

Pictures would help.

I'm only learning too.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in.

 

[Art Doc]

No letter prefix? Yes, 1940 or so gun made for Great Britain. Most likely 5".

 

[JP@AK]

I think that in that serial # range it should have a V on the other side of the lanyard ring, if there is a lanyard ring, to be a Victory.

The V serial numbers never got anywhere near V900,000. SVs came along in the V730xxx range and were common by the V762xxx range and the V disappeared altogether at about SV813xxx.

If this one is a BSR with six digits beginning with 9, it is from before the V started in April, 1942. The odd part is the property stamp. Lend/Lease didn't kick in until after the V prefix came into use, if I remember correctly. There are better experts on the Victory Model than I am lurking around here somewhere.

I'm only learning too.

Now you have another tool or two in your mental tool box!

 

[JP@AK]

The odd part is the property stamp. Lend/Lease didn't kick in until after the V prefix came into use, if I remember correctly.

Scratch that. I checked. There were Lend/Lease guns (with property stamp) that did not have the V prefix. Lead/Lease shipments to the UK and Commonwealth countries seem to have started after the middle of 1941.

Seems like you have a relatively early BSR. It may or may not have had a 5" barrel, but more likely than not, it did.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Yes I believe you have a pre victory. As Jack says, it was likely made in the early part of 1942 before the V was added around April. If you can post some pictures, we can tell you more. Make sure you take pictures of any of the stampings that may be on the gun.

Guy

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! Its official name is a .38/200 (.38 S & W) British Service Revolver. By this SN they were probably phosphate finish (similar to Parkerized) rather than blued, with smooth walnut stocks and the butt swivel.

Many of these did get to Australia and were refurbished, usually with an "MA" (Munitions Australia) and year (54 is typical) stamping among others. One with original finish and in good mechanical condition is somewhat scarce.

 

[DWalt]

Actually,the official British military nomenclature for it was "Pistol, Revolver, Smith and Wesson, No. 2." McHenry and Roper allude to that name (they call the BSR as being “S&W Pistol No. 2”), and I have had confirmation of that from several in previous British ordnance service. That name was to distinguish it from the "Pistol, Revolver, Enfield No.2," also chambered for the .380 Revolver, Mk1 or Mk2 cartridge.

I doubt that anyone in the British military used the official name. It would be interesting to know what the troops called it.

 

[JP@AK]

It would be interesting to know what the troops called it.

Probably "My pistol" or "My revolver."

 

[gordonrick]

Welcome to the forum! A bunch (8000) of these went to Australia on contract before the lend-lease program started but it was a lower serial number range (760,000's) and mostly shipped in May 1941. These earlier guns had a blue finish and the commercial checkered grips with no U.S. property markings.

They began transitioning to smooth grips in late 1941 so yours may have have had either the checkered or smooth grips, and probably had a bright blue or a "brush blue" finish. All of the guns sent to Australia were 5" as far as I know, but never say never.

Interestingly, the first lend-lease U.S. property marked gun (791,320) went to Australia. The first "V" prefix gun shipped in April 1942 so 996,xxx would be just before that. (Quoting liberally from my notes from DWalt's previous "Victory" posts)

 

[Absalom]

...
They began transitioning to smooth grips in late 1941 so yours may have have had either the checkered or smooth grips, and probably had a bright blue or a "brush blue" finish...

To tighten this down a bit further:

By the 910-thousands in January 1942, smooth stocks had replaced the checkered medallion style, so for this one the latter are not a realistic option.

Also, bright blue ended long before this gun, in December 1941, and the brush blue that followed was replaced by the sandblast Black Magic in April 1942, so this gun would have come originally with the standard dull Victory finish.

 

[Absalom]

While the original Australian contract in the 700-thousands is distinct and pre-Victorys which were part of that will be identified as such if you letter them, shipments through the British Purchasing Commission and later Lend-lease shipments either by way of distribution through Britain or direct shipment cannot be so identified unless they have Australian service stamps (A^F or D^D on the left frame) or were FTR’d in the 1950s at the Lithgow Small Arms Factory.

Some show both markings, but the Lithgow FTR marks are the most commonly encountered. See attached. That’s from a BPC pre-Victory, by the way, which first shipped to Britain, was stamped at Enfield, and then ended up in Australian service.

A minor correction to Alan’s explanation above: While the “Munitions Australia” for MA is widely repeated in the literature, the Lithgow Factory Museum believes it actually stands for “Mach Arms”, which was Lithgow’s telex code. I got that through e-mail correspondence directly from the curator.