Plumbing…

My water heater has a tiny leak. Been putting off replacing it due to the plumbing, plus it's in the garage so it's not hurting anything. I had my house built in 2004, and never seen a water heater piped like this.

Inlet and outlet together? I've replaced a lot of water heaters over the years, and the pipes have always been apart.

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That is one of the worst piping jobs I've seen in a long time. There has to be a reason. This is a job for PEX!
 
It was also a job that should have had 2 unions. I can shut off all the water to my house with one ball valve at the hot water heater, break 2 unions to and from tank, turn off gas and disconnect it. Then move exhaust duct and be able to move heater out and new one in and reconnect. Those connections are the only ones in the house that are not PEX or service lines.
 
Before I move, I'll have to remove the braided washer hoses I have connecting my water heater! Hey, it worked! It's over the 6 year warranty so soon I'll be swearing. There will be in & out ball valves instead of that 1950 gate valve, with unions (if I feel like it; let the new owner deal with it!) Both my sisters have cement pads they live on. Are all the pipes under there made to last forever?
 
Don't get me started. I am on he board of a local civic organization. Our backflow preventer is leaking. Would a licensed, bonded, insured plumber do to fix it? No says local .gov, must be certified "backflow tech." $50 part, actually 1$ gasket; the "proper guy" wants a little shy of $1800. I could do it myself in an hour but the inspector will want to see "documentation." Progress. Joe
 
Don't get me started. I am on he board of a local civic organization. Our backflow preventer is leaking. Would a licensed, bonded, insured plumber do to fix it? No says local .gov, must be certified "backflow tech." $50 part, actually 1$ gasket; the "proper guy" wants a little shy of $1800. I could do it myself in an hour but the inspector will want to see "documentation." Progress. Joe

In Chicago or New York that "documentation" the inspector wants would have pictures of dead presidents.
 
...Both my sisters have cement pads they live on. Are all the pipes under there made to last forever?
The Benedictine abbey near me put in underfloor water heat when they built the abbey church in 1982. Not sure what they plumbed the lines in with, probably galvanized pipe. But they cheaped out somewhere in the installation and the lines began to fail about 20 years later. They had to jackhammer out about 15,000 sf. of concrete and replace it :eek: The labour was cheap as the community did it themselves, but it was a huge job. SO much easier to get it right the first time!

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In the great freeze of 2021 I had the 1/4" copper tubing to the refrigerator ice maker freeze and burst in the attic. Resulted in about $5K in damage to the kitchen ceiling and floor.

I have done several plumbing repairs by using reinforced vinyl hose that have worked OK. Yes, I know that's against most city plumbing codes for indoor plumbing. But in the locations repaired it was much easier to use than PVC pipe or copper tubing. The hose I used is rated for 150 psi, and is not exposed to sunlight.

OK I have to say that mine is the weirdest plumbing ...solution?... I have ever seen. After selling our house some time ago and traveling around in our RV for a while we decided to "settle down". Our kids are out in the 'burbs but frankly, there's nothing out there for us to do. We bought a townhouse close to the city where there's a whole lot more going on. Like half a dozen restaurants in walking distance. We're 30 minutes from the kids/grandkids.

The place was built in the 60's and there's a lot of weird stuff people have done over the years. Yesterday a neighbor knocked on my door and said "Hey, you got a leak". About two feet left of the front door and a foot off the ground water was pouring down the brick.

We've only been here a couple of months and frankly, I never noticed the small copper line running across the front of the house behind the bushes. The solution for the refrigerator water supply, which was not plumbed in when built, was to tap into a hose bib on the left side of the wall and run it across the front and through the brick into the kitchen. At least they were kind enough to put a shut-off on it. I have a service request in for it. It's outside, so it should be their problem. If not, it's an easy fix. It must have frozen many times. At least the leak is outside.

There's a lot of cheap fixes that were done on this place we're in the process of correcting.
 
I hate plumbing. It's always in the most inaccessible area and then there is always that one little drip about once every 3-5 seconds after it's "fixed". Give me electrical/wiring work any day.
 
What was wrong with PVC and CPVC? When I bought my house 28 years ago, it was copper throughout, but about two years in (the house was built in 1967), I started getting pinhole leaks, mostly in the elbows, from grit scouring of the pipe. I'm on a deep well, and installed a whole house filter system, but I also replaced all the copper with CPVC and 26 years later, it's still working fine. I know copper was the Gold standard for quality home piping, but the cost has gone through the roof for materials and you have to do enough of it to keep your soldering technique solid.

I like the simplicity of cutting and gluing, and if you need to add a branch line or repair a frozen spot, just cut it out and glue in the repair. No special skills (soldering) or special tools (PEX crimper) needed, other than a pipe cutter. I do a lot of lawn irrigation systems, using PVC and joining pipe is super simple.

Everything I've ever read about Sharkbite fittings says not to use them where you don't have access to the pipe, like in an enclosed wall. That makes me think they are unreliable and I won't use them.
 
Shark bites are for quick down and dirty emergency repairs IMHO.

PEX is way more flexible than PVC, you can make pretty short sweeping turns with it no problem, it is way tougher, will put up with freezing way better too. Plus, no glue fumes. Use the same cutter as PVC, just need a crimp tool or with the new stuff an expander. Install collar on pipe, expand, put on fitting and in a few seconds it will contract and seal water pressure tight and there is virtually no flow restriction.

I build my house with a crawl space. Before I stuck the floor joists on the foundation I just tossed in some red and blue PEX and some 1 1/2" PVC for the drains and covered it all up. Made a 32x 32 opening in the floor of utility room and once I was framed in stuck R19 insulation in then dropped 1/2" lines for all the services down the walls into the crawl space. Same for sink and washer drains. Once the porcelain throne and shower were set I was able to connect everything up in about 2 days. Only glue needed was for the drains and I designed my house so all those were all in 1/2 of 2 walls that met and less than 6' of 4" was needed. When I put on a 800 sq ft addition it was simple to cut in to provide water for another shower 2 sinks and another throne.

The only threaded stuff is at hotwater heater and a couple wash out plugs I put on sewer lines. The main sewer line has a set up where I can connect a water hose to from a valve in crawl space and flush the whole thing out, before I pull a pig plug to allow me to run a snake in a straight shot to the septic tank if I ever need too.

House has been done for 12 years now and the only problem I have had was once I was gone for about 8 weeks in the winter before I got married again. Snow had plugged up the vent and the sewer line that ran under the carport had froze up because the septic tank wasn't venting back through. I now have a 180 on top of vent and the carport became an addition, and the shop has heat. So, the entire sewer line has heated building over it until a couple feet from the septic tank. Plus, the house is never empty for long so sewer line gets some frequent drainage

The shop gets its water from my well. It has a bathroom in far corner way away from the furnace. Light switch went out a few years ago and the heat lamp I had in there went out the and copper pipes under floor froze and broke. Replaced everything with PEX and added a short heat tape around the metal pipe where it comes out out the ground. The exposed PEX pipe behind the toilet against the outside wall froze up and there was a rim of ice in the bowl when it got -38 one night and -30 the next night, but it is fine and leak free now. That corner of the shop is original and is 2x4 construction and poorly insulated
 
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40 Gallon water Heater Installation $1373.18

Sent this letter with the check.

Service 12/25/2023 - Three weeks ago

Payment for Invoice 40411 ($1373.18) enclosed.
40 Gallon water Heater / Copper Fittings / Installation

When needing service I did not ask for cheapest, but who was training apprentices.
I wanted to support education of the next generation.

Installation has magnificent copper plumbing.

I learned several things (overheard) while they were explained to the new guy.
How tubing cutter deforms the tubing.
How tubing can be deburred with a jaw of a crescent wrench.
Copper needs to be polished with abrasive strip or rotary brush
before applying flux.

Previous water heater replacements, by others, were less expensive and took less time.

Bekeart
I got ejukcated SIC
 
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Sent this letter with the check.

Payment for Invoice 40411 ($1373.18) enclosed.
40 Gallon water Heater / Copper Fittings / Installation

When needing service I did not ask for cheapest, but who was training apprentices.
I wanted to support education of the next generation.

Installation has magnificent copper plumbing.

I learned several things (overheard) while they were explained to the new guy.
How tubing cutter deforms the tubing.
How tubing can be deburred with a jaw of a crescent wrench.
Copper needs to be polished with abrasive strip or rotary brush
before applying flux.

Previous water heater replacements, by others, were less expensive and took less time.

Bekeart
I got ejukcated SIC

How long ago was that? My water heater let go just after we got back from our Christmas trip, and the cheapest quote was $1500 for the cheap heater with the 6 year warranty and a day's delay in doing the job. I paid more for a better heater and to get it done immediately.
 
My water heater has a tiny leak. Been putting off replacing it due to the plumbing, plus it's in the garage so it's not hurting anything. I had my house built in 2004, and never seen a water heater piped like this.

Inlet and outlet together? I've replaced a lot of water heaters over the years, and the pipes have always been apart.

i-xc8gHZ7-X2.jpg

I doubt that would pass code even in freewheeling Nevada. On a 2004 house? :eek::eek::eek:
 
Don't get me started. I am on he board of a local civic organization. Our backflow preventer is leaking. Would a licensed, bonded, insured plumber do to fix it? No says local .gov, must be certified "backflow tech." $50 part, actually 1$ gasket; the "proper guy" wants a little shy of $1800. I could do it myself in an hour but the inspector will want to see "documentation." Progress. Joe

Looking at post #19, they don't ask for enough documentation.

All you guys reporting burst pipes are clearly suffering from a severe lack of insulation or dumb pipe routing by the builders.
 
How long ago was that? My water heater let go just after we got back from our Christmas trip, and the cheapest quote was $1500 for the cheap heater with the 6 year warranty and a day's delay in doing the job. I paid more for a better heater and to get it done immediately.

Service 12/25/2023 - Three weeks ago
 
Replacement Plumbing

About 4 years ago, a friend had me run new pipes for all the fresh water in the basement. From where the well shut off was to the stubs for upstairs. In the basement is the Hot Water tank (50 gal Electric) a frost cock for he garden Washer/Dryer bay and an old kitchen sink for the plat potting bench.

This huge old mansion was built in 1809 for the first wing and 1859 for the rear wing. (Front has Geogian facade South has Egyptian Revival) The house has had several remodels and redneck repairs! The majority was plumbed in 3/4" Galvanized pipe, about 1/4 in various sized copper and a section of 3/8" grey plastic. I recommended Pex! But they insisted on CPVC (all 3/4"). It took almost 3 days, so I had to keep the water service running over night.

The scary part was the are live 3/4" Gas lines and live 3/4" Fuel Oil lines, ALL IN 3/4" GALVINIZED! I traced every line I cut two times before cutting out anything!

The first section was from the well to the garden bib. The foundation wall is 2 foot thick in that area, I could only locate 18" frost bibs and threaded an extension on that is inside the wall (I hate that!) There just inside the basement is a stop, then 90's up to the overhead lines. I was so scared when I removed the old line, Water, Gas, and Oil almost touching for 40 feet. As I traced the lines, I flagged them with survey tape (and left it when finished. I used blue for water Yellow for gas and red for fuel oil. It turns out there is a fourth line of unknown usage!)

Then I stub off the well line and supply the "Utility area", Hot Water Tank, The whole house cold supply and two stubs that run to two bathrooms.

Next, I have to run line to the rear wall through the foundations of two early 1800's fireplaces that are 12 feet wide and 6 feet thick! There were two chases about 3" around and 20 inches apart. They must have been drilled with well drilling star bits (Like mining coal!). At the back wall Tee right for washer hook-up and left for stubs to kitchen and potting sink. This is the area with the 3/8" grey plastic lines, assempled with plastic compression fittings. In a 4' area there are about 25' of line figure 8ing back and forth! (maybe for a RO filter that's gone, or handyman make work!)

I ended up cutting out 197 feet of pipe, tube and junk. I installed 83 feet of new CPVC! For the kitchen, I replaced all the way to a new faucet, new disposal, and a new instant hot water dispenser. Before I started, it took about 7 minutes to get actual Hot water in the kitchen. When I was done, I ask the lady of the house if she would like to try her new plumbing? She put he hand under the hot water and turned it on. Shen got a little burnt in about 15 seconds! She started crying. She'd put up with no water pressure for 16 years. The runs to the bathrooms had been done by someone else, but the showers were hot and powerful now!

I spent another two hours removing "Dead Runs" of pipe and securing the new lines to the floor joist.

I could have had several jobs like that just from word of mouth, but I only do work for friends now! While I'm willing to do it for free, they pay me well. Other people don't realize that should have been a $3500 job!

My oldest lived in Texas and the Mid-Century Modern Ranch need the copper replaced. It was done in 1/2" Pex, in one day, no new fixtures! $5000 in 2012.

Ivan
 
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The mechanical company I work for uses a lot of pro press and mega press fittings. Much better than shark bites, easier than soldering, but more expensive. I was at a plant several years ago and there was a 4" hydraulic line that I couldn't get at to weld. The answer was a $7000 mega press coupling. I'm not sure if a pro press is something you can rent but I'll borrow one if the need arises.
 

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