Pocket Gun or Work around 686

[Ingramite]

This one is sort of out of left field.
Beretta Mini Cougar in. 45acp.
Double action, hammer fired.
6+1 with the flush magazine.
100% reliable.
My favorite pocket pistol.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

This has been kind of interesting. I always try to figure out where a poster is coming from when they make a request for info like this. What I've found is it's usually because what they're planning to do is outside of their comfort level or level of expertise.

I'm glad that Mr. Goudy has dropped the .22 idea. This is 2022, and there are an infinite number of choices that will run rings around a .22 in performance. Not to mention, the sort of people that one might run into as an adversary these days tend to have one or more substances on board, and most of those things tend to render the user numb to injuries that might stop a sober person. a small round like a .22 may not register at all, considering the times where getting hit with a 9, 40 or 45 didn't faze them!

I'm not sure why a large gun like a 686 would be in consideration, either. Any rig that will serve to conceal a gun that big might be comfortable for a couple of hours, but having carried a 686 as a duty gun many years ago, I can tell you I still remember that it was a real chore to carry day in and day out. I was thrilled to be able to switch to a Model 669 after toting that brick for a while. I'm certain the L frame contributed to my lower back problems that I have to this day.

I hope you'll consider a semi-auto in spite of the reluctance you've mentioned here. First of all, forget anything you've read or heard about reliability. The majority of those are either internet legends or just plain wrong. A semi is as reliable as you are at taking care of it, and by that I mean doing the basic stuff like cleaning and oiling when needed. You don't even need to tear it down to the bare bones, either.

I agree, the Glock form is not for everyone. I hate them, personally, so I don't even try to use one. Plenty of other choices out there!

Bottom line: go to any range that rents guns and try one or two. Getting familiar with each one's controls, loading, and best grip to use will tell you a lot more about whether or not a particular gun will work for you.

By the way: if the range also rents the Ruger LCR 9mm, give it a try. Some folks say that the 9 in a revolver has some pretty snappy recoil and they don't shoot more than a cylinder or two at a time. See for yourself.

Anyway, I wish you luck and hope your journey is successful.

Thanks for the detailed post, having a 686 as my only handgun I can fully relate to the brick analogy. Can it be carried? Absolutely. Is it enjoyable? Absolutely not and a pain to dress around. Unless it's winter and I'm wearing a puffy coat I have to plan everything around it. During summer tall size Hawaiian shirts have done the trick but even that is not ideal. I also can relate to the back pain and I don't even carry it for more than a few hours at a time.

I wish I had a gun store that let me shoot, the only experience I have with autoloaders is friends letting me try theirs. Where I live the nearest store other than LGS is about a two hour round trip . What I do know is I hate the Glock grip so much so that is a start. While I prefer revolvers I'd be open to a quality semi.

The one semi auto I really liked that I held in store was a SIG P365. Felt premium, loved the grip, and felt the texture of it made it easy to get a good grip on it. Of all the semi autos it just made the most sense to me, if that makes any sense everything was in a place that made it easier to operate than other semis I have held. The only other than came close was the Glock 43 with longer magazine so I could get my pinky on it as I have large hands. I still hated the angle of the grip but everything else on the 43 was nice. That was my only knock on the SIG was I couldn't get my pinky on the grip and I like having a full grip, which is why I love the LCR grip so much and the extended grip on the 43 at LGS.

 

[John Patrick]

Thanks for the detailed post, having a 686 as my only handgun I can fully relate to the brick analogy. Can it be carried? Absolutely. Is it enjoyable? Absolutely not and a pain to dress around. Unless it's winter and I'm wearing a puffy coat I have to plan everything around it. During summer tall size Hawaiian shirts have done the trick but even that is not ideal. I also can relate to the back pain and I don't even carry it for more than a few hours at a time.

I wish I had a gun store that let me shoot, the only experience I have with autoloaders is friends letting me try theirs. Where I live the nearest store other than LGS is about a two hour round trip . What I do know is I hate the Glock grip so much so that is a start. While I prefer revolvers I'd be open to a quality semi.

The one semi auto I really liked that I held in store was a SIG P365. Felt premium, loved the grip, and felt the texture of it made it easy to get a good grip on it. Of all the semi autos it just made the most sense to me, if that makes any sense everything was in a place that made it easier to operate than other semis I have held. The only other than came close was the Glock 43 with longer magazine so I could get my pinky on it as I have large hands. I still hated the angle of the grip but everything else on the 43 was nice. That was my only knock on the SIG was I couldn't get my pinky on the grip and I like having a full grip, which is why I love the LCR grip so much and the extended grip on the 43 at LGS.

The P365X has a longer grip than the smaller original Natron size. And 12 round magazines in a free state.

Or you can get the original size and longer magazines. That option gives the immediate choice of short but and magazines for better conceal-ability or the longer magazines for better shooting. Permanently configured 10 round long magazines are available if you need them.

Also, wrt 9mm out of a revolver, my 3" steel K frame Model 547 (a 9mm) provides more recoil with typical 115gr range ammo than a 3" steel K frame shooting standard 38spl range ammo, but 38spl +P defensive ammo produces about the same recoil as the 9mm.

 

[lrrifleman]

@Goudy,

I have to second the Sig P365. I have both the Nitron 9mm and Nitron 380. I have been shooting and carrying the 9mm for a few years. This past summer I had occasion to pocket carry my G42 and discovered that the G42 and the P365 had the same footprint.

The only problem I encountered was drawing the 9mm (which has a manual safety), it seemed to take a little longer. When I purchased the 365-380, I picked it up without the manual safety. With the onset of neuropathy, I am finding the 380 a little easier to shoot. I am intrigued by the SAS, but not enough to purchase one. My ophthalmologist has the SAS, but doesn't like it, for him, it won't shoot to the sights.

I'd give both chamberings of the P365 serious consideration. Ten plus one of either 9mm round will be effective at bad breath distance!

 

[oldiegoldie]

the biggest advantage of the P365 platform is the flexibility. you can make it as small as you want [the original], go with longer grip, longer slide and barrel. it is so customizable. and you don't have to take it to a gunsmith to make the changes. Sig deserves a real round of applause for this game changing pistol. and i'm sure we will see more options in the future. Belt feed? could happen.

 

[somorris]

Since this is a S&W forum, I was just wondering it you have tried any of the S&W semi-autos?

I understand perfectly the desire for a gun you can pick up on your way out the door, shove it in your pocket and go. Having to put on a holster (at least for me, and especially IWB) is quite a bit more hassle. I really like a S&W 642 for this reason, and use a Mika holster. I wonder if folks here that carry a Sig 365 pocket carry it or have it on a belt/holster setup. Just me, but it seems like the lint and fuzz that gets in your pockets would have a tendency to possibly jam a semi-auto.

 

[GerSan69]

I don't pocket carry much any more. I did daily when I was in a uniform, typically one or another Chief Special or similar as a backup, like the 649 Bodyguard. I bought a Safariland pocket holster, the Model 25 (I think.) It's molded plastic with suede sewn and glued to the exterior, giving pretty good friction against pulling it out with the gun. The smooth inside doesn't snag any part of the gun, so a clean draw is possible every time. It was inexpensive, too, around $34 on Amazon. They also have them for small semi-autos.... same price.

 

[OLDSTER]

@Goudy,

I have to second the Sig P365. I have both the Nitron 9mm and Nitron 380. I have been shooting and carrying the 9mm for a few years. This past summer I had occasion to pocket carry my G42 and discovered that the G42 and the P365 had the same footprint.

The only problem I encountered was drawing the 9mm (which has a manual safety), it seemed to take a little longer. When I purchased the 365-380, I picked it up without the manual safety. With the onset of neuropathy, I am finding the 380 a little easier to shoot. I am intrigued by the SAS, but not enough to purchase one. My ophthalmologist has the SAS, but doesn't like it, for him, it won't shoot to the sights.

I'd give both chamberings of the P365 serious consideration. Ten plus one of either 9mm round will be effective at bad breath distance!

All kudos for the Sig P365 series. I own 4 sub-compact 9mm pistols. My P365X is the best of the lot in so many ways. I'm trading 2 of the others for more Sigs. Sig knocked it out of the park with this pistol.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

It doesn't have to be all or [next to] nothing. You can compromise. A 2" Model 15 is a lot lighter than a 686, and will shoot any of the better +P loads to point of aim.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

Luckily for me I won't be making a final decision until spring, but now I'm at least in the right direction. I will be going with a 9mm subcompact or revolver and the finalists are:

Sig P365: In the lead right now because of capacity for the size, love their grips, and feel the most well built of any autoloaders I have held.

Ruger LCR in 357 or 9mm: Probably the best grip I have ever held, super ergonomic, and my experience with revolvers make this the easiest transition for a pure carry gun.

Smith and Wesson M&P Shield: Move over Glock 43, as a Smith and Wesson guy I bumped the Shield to 3 because I like its grip almost as much as SIG. I also think it has the best controls of any subcompact I've ever held. Thanks to my cousin for letting me hold his today to see how it fit in the hand.

 

[lrrifleman]

I wonder if folks here that carry a Sig 365 pocket carry it or have it on a belt/holster setup. Just me, but it seems like the lint and fuzz that gets in your pockets would have a tendency to possibly jam a semi-auto.

I generally carry both ways. If I am on a long road trip where I will be in the driver's seat except for when I get gas or get to the hotel, I pocket carry. When I am going to be in and out of the car, I will carry IWB.

When I pocket carry, I don't just drop my P365 into my pocket, I use a Vedder Pocket Locker. When I carry IWB, I use a Kydex IWB. However, I am in the process of rethinking my carry method since my P365-380 will be wearing a RDS and my developing neuropathy in my hands (left hand is significantly worse).

 

[Doug M.]

First off, you have make a choice that you will carry every day, every moment you are outside of a secured area that is under your control. You also have to make a choice of platform and round that you shoot adequately well (minute of pie plate at 10 yards as fast as you can will do for most of us.)

The reality is that most of the time, a modest sized auto-pistol is going to be easiest to conceal and still be an effective shooting platform. There are drawback to the Glocks, but when I got serious, they ruled. A large majority of the time for most of the last 20, my EDC has been a Glock 33. In a Kramer pocket holster it pretty much disappears in my pockets, even when I wore dress trousers a lot. It has XS big dot sights to make picking up the front sight and getting a useful sight picture a lot faster. It is not pleasant to shoot.

I have recently moved to carrying my 4" Shield PC with RDS more. I have a couple of holster options Fram Dale Fricke that work well with it. The fiber optics sights have no appeal for me, but the RDS really make it shoot pretty easily for me and I have cleaned my last two quals, I think mostly due to the RDS. Mine is a 9mm, as I have multiple platforms that use that caliber.

I just had major surgery (double bypass last Tuesday). There are significant activity restrictions, mostly related to the process of healing my sternum. Shooting is supposed to be a no-no, although the written directions refer to rifles and shotguns. It would be pretty dumb to go hands on with a 4 year old, let alone a real criminal. I am left with one viable choice to use as what we refer to as an Old Man Gun. It is a Glock 42 in a Mika pocket holster, which it will even work in track pants and the like. It also has XS sights. I have put a lot of ammo through it to complete break-in, about which I have reported on this forum in the last 3 years or so. It is not easy to shoot well, but simply have no better choice at this time. I carry 2 mags in addition, but whether I need to do so is questionable. I am not allowed to drive for about a month, and will not leave the house often. My wife knows that driving over assailants in the car is exponentially safer that any other option.

The 686 is a functional ballistic platform for a lot of your needs, but not as good a fighting tool as other choices because you are not carrying it at every moment. The J frame revolvers are small enough to carry regularly, but are not as easy to shoot well due to ergonomics. Study mindset. Study tactical ballistics. Never go to someplace stupid if you don't have to. Avoid bars and places where there is any dancing other than ballroom.

It is no longer my duty to hunt bad people and interdict them. When it was, I carried a G21 and 3 spare mags, plus an AR with several spare mags and a shotgun. I could be several minutes alone with a problem due to the size of our real areas. As a private citizen, my only likely concern is direct and personal. We don't socialize, etc., so we have little exposure to random people.

 

[Lobster Picnic]

My answer to the problem was the Airweight J-frame 351c, 7 shots, 22 magnum. It weighs about 11oz and the recoil is minimal. There is also the S&W 43c, 8 shots, .22lr.
They are a dream to carry, practicing will not punish your hand and would be very effective at getting rounds into the target quickly.

 

[m&p2.0fdethumbsafety]

i would never carry anything i couldn't reliably make 50+ yard shots with. so super micro compact "pocket guns" are out of the picture.


shield is about as small as i'm comfortable with.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

My answer to the problem was the Airweight J-frame 351c, 7 shots, 22 magnum. It weighs about 11oz and the recoil is minimal. There is also the S&W 43c, 8 shots, .22lr.
They are a dream to carry, practicing will not punish your hand and would be very effective at getting rounds into the target quickly.

My brother is a big advocate of the 43c as his carry gun. Which is why I was initially interested in 22 LR revolvers for carry.

I held a SigP365 today at LGS was $500 had great sights stock and still love the grips. This one had a mag with a little extra for the pinky which was amazing.

I am lucky I don't have to make a decision until around April or May as my 686 is workable until Summer when it becomes a real pain. I have my work cut out for me to do my research and try to shoot some of these.

 

[John Patrick]

i would never carry anything i couldn't reliably make 50+ yard shots with. so super micro compact "pocket guns" are out of the picture.


shield is about as small as i'm comfortable with.

I cannot understand the 50yd range issue, but it isn't any harder to shoot P365X well at 50yds than, say, a Glock 17/19/45.

The only reason I shoot 50yds when practicing is that it makes self defense ranges easy.

 

[Doug M.]

Which is a valid enough reason. We did that in my academy. Learn the fundamental to the level that they work at such distance, and solid hits at
the 10 and in are a breeze.

 

[swsig]

...

Thanksgiving Update: Smith and Wesson M&P edges out the Glock 43 for finalist slot. Final 3 to research are SIG P365 in 9mm, Ruger LCR 357 magnum, and M&P Shield 9mm

If you are considering the Shield 9, also look at the Shield 45. They're similar in size and weight (I have both), but the Shield 45 is easier to rack, and it is significantly more accurate than the Shield 9. Recoil from the Shield 45 is surprisingly mild for a pistol its size. If you can handle shooting 357 magnum from an LCR, you'll have no trouble with the Shield 45. I pocket carry my Shield 45 every day 7+1, with no difficulty, in a Desantis Nemesis holster. If you want to lighten it up a bit, you can use the 6-round magazine.

 

[MattLarmore]

Thanksgiving Update: Smith and Wesson M&P edges out the Glock 43 for finalist slot. Final 3 to research are SIG P365 in 9mm, Ruger LCR 357 magnum, and M&P Shield 9mm

I love my Shield Plus 9mm for carry. 3.1" conceals very easily and with the 13rd mag gives me 14 rounds. I carry with that comfortably(with a good holster and belt) sometimes I literally forget it's there.

Haven't carried my 4" 686 yet, but this winter if I am going to wear a heavy jacket I think the 686 will conceal fine.

 

[OLDSTER]

i would never carry anything i couldn't reliably make 50+ yard shots with. so super micro compact "pocket guns" are out of the picture.


shield is about as small as i'm comfortable with.

50 yards is far beyond the need for self defense. You'd find yourself warming a cold wood bench in a court of law.