Poor Man's Buffalo Gun

[David LaPell]

I have never been able to afford a Sharps rifle or a Remington Rolling Block custom rifle, but I found this nice gem recently, an Argentine 1879 Remington Rolling Block in .43 Spanish. It's got a few dings and dents in the wood but it has a wonderful bore for a gun that shot blackpowder rounds over a hundred years ago. It reminds me of Lucretia Borgia, the full stocked Trapdoor Springfield Buffalo Bill Cody shot 3,000 bison with when he was under contract. I had thought about customizing this rifle, but it's too nice to cut up. Still has the nice three line Remington markings on the tang. If all works out, I would like to take it hunting if I can get it to shoot. I got it for about a third of the cost of a decent Italian Sharps replica and less than the deposit of a Shiloh Sharps.

 

[BearBio]

Looks like a good one!

 

[Muley Gil]

Good score! My first centerfire rifle was a Remington rolling block carbine in .43 Spanish. Wish I still had it!

 

[Watchdog]

I have never been able to afford a Sharps rifle or a Remington Rolling Block custom rifle, but I found this nice gem recently, an Argentine 1879 Remington Rolling Block in .43 Spanish. It's got a few dings and dents in the wood but it has a wonderful bore for a gun that shot blackpowder rounds over a hundred years ago. It reminds me of Lucretia Borgia, the full stocked Trapdoor Springfield Buffalo Bill Cody shot 3,000 bison with when he was under contract. I had thought about customizing this rifle, but it's too nice to cut up. Still has the nice three line Remington markings on the tang. If all works out, I would like to take it hunting if I can get it to shoot. I got it for about a third of the cost of a decent Italian Sharps replica and less than the deposit of a Shiloh Sharps.

I like the rifle. Can't tell by looking at the photo...is that a Buffington or Buffington-style rear sight on it?

Frankly, though, I'm surprised Bill Cody even knew who Lucrezia Borgia was. He was not an educated man.

 

[ACP230]

There were a couple of older guys at the range last year.
One had a rolling block in .43 and told me something about
how he got cases to reload for it.

Fun to watch him shoot it and the .45-70s he and his buddy
also had at the range that day.

 

[Drm50]

My old man bought same rifle at auction one time. They had it
marked as a 45/70. There is no reason it won't shoot. Brass can
be made from 348 Win and .439" bullet moulds avaible.

 

[DWalt]

Frankly, though, I'm surprised Bill Cody even knew who Lucrezia Borgia was. He was not an educated man.

I wouldn't be surprised. The level of literacy at that time was fairly high even among the poorer classes, and reading, especially of the classics, was fairly widespread. No TV, video games, etc. to waste time with sitting around the campfire, and people read instead. Theaters with stage plays were also fairly popular among the masses.

 

[Bakebfr480]

Very nice!

 

[DWalt]

My old man bought same rifle at auction one time. They had it marked as a 45/70. There is no reason it won't shoot. Brass can be made from 348 Win and .439" bullet moulds avaible.

If you can find .348 brass. Scarce, not too commonly found, and expensive when you do. And so are reloading dies. It would be nice if someone made a production run of .348 brass for the benefit of all those having Winchester Model 71 rifles and/or those who re-form brass for obsolete black powder cartridges.

 

[ky wonder]

I had a guy at the last cave city show, try and sell me a box of 43 Egyptian vintage ammo he was wondering what type gun it would fit.

he was not asking much, and I told him they would fit the old Remington rolling blocks if he could find some one with the gun,, they would jump at the chance to buy the gun

il keep my eves open for him this fall at the next show and if he still has them il get the op a box of bullets

 

[LVSteve]

There is a special elegance about that rifle. It's like looking at a Jaguar XKE. THINKS: Were these available in that form in a more common caliber?

Off to see what Google says.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

That was a good deal. I think the .43 is very close to the .44-77 Sharps but not intergangable. I have always wanted the 1870 NY militia (???) Remington that looks like yours but’s in .50-70. Weren’t you amazed how light and pointable that rifle is though it looks like it would be unwieldy and clumsy?

 

[BigBill]

I always wanted something big bore in one of these. Maybe a 60-120? Something big and different.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...Buffalo Bill's Rolling Block...

...Custer had one too...

 

[OldK22]

They are fun to shoot and ammunition is out there if you look for it.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The 43 Basic brass is around 3" long and needs trimmed to 2 1/4 inch (57mm) They use about a 400 grain bullet, BUT a regular round nose bullet usually won't work. They need a tapered "Semi-Spitzer" slug. Weather you use paper patch or regular lead hollow base bullets, you need a "Cookie" of lube under the bullet 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick (SPG or paraffin/Crisco mix work fine), and an over the powder card of fiber, felt, or cardboard (milk carton). The solid web modern brass won't hold as much powder as the old Balloon head cases, so a 65 to 70 grain charge of FFFg or FFg will have to do. I have the Spanish predecessor in 43 Reformado. Just about the same except for .454 diameter bullets!

Once you have correct brass for your Rolling Block, you won't absolutely have to have loading dies. You can reload without sizing the neck is the chamber isn't too loose! Back between the wars and shortly after WW II it was common to use a large bench vise to "Press" the round together, and being a single shot a crimp isn't necessary except to keep the round together if it falls over. I have 43 Spanish and 43 Reformado dies from C-H 4-D in Mt. Vernon, Ohio, I have their shell holder also (it fits the 11mm Mauser round too). WLR primers do a really good job; not too little/ not too much for the black powder rounds. Brass and ammo are listed in midway's catalog (If not on B/O) The 44-77 BN and other brass will work too but usually costs more. 348 Win brass is considerably larger at the web and will destroy you 43 dies if you try to just size in down. (Sometimes the chamber is worn or modified to use neck expanded 348 Win brass, but it is about 3/8" short!)

Ivan

 

[JohnRippert]

This is the guy I get my Martini-Henry ammo from. Not cheap at all but if you do not roll your own or want some to start your brass supply.....

Scroll down to "Military Obsolete Black Powder Cartridges:"



Gad Custom Reloaded Cartridges and Shell Reloading Services

 

[David LaPell]

I've been doing some more digging on these rifles, apparently while they were really popular in South America, particularly Argentina, Mexico, and a few other places, these exact rifles were used in the Philippines during the Insurrection by the Moros in .43 Spanish.
It's hard to say where this gun came from, there are no markings on it from any nation, no stampings, other than inspection markings, nothing, not even a serial number. Only numbers are three on the buttstock, one going horizontal, a "2", and then a vertical "42". That and a "u" on each barrel band, nothing more. I don't think this gun ever saw service in any military, and after reading up on it in Mike Venturino's "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West", he wrote that these guns were sold like this commercially. I think that's what this might be. The bore looks too good to have been issued, many of these things have pitting and rust, this doesn't.

Here are some of the rolling blocks in the hands of the Moros.

 

[DWalt]

There were huge numbers of Remington Rolling Block rifles made for many governments. Even the U.S. Navy used one briefly, in .50-70. I fired one of those once. There were also RB copies made, I think in Belgium, maybe other places also. The .43 Spanish and the .43 Egyptian cartridges are very similar but I believe there are some small dimensional differences. Many were made in 7x57 Mauser for use in South America and Mexico. One of the most interesting (and rare) versions is the Papal Remington Rolling Block, carried by the Swiss Guards in the Vatican. I don't remember the caliber, but I think it was a short straight cased .50 Caliber (I looked it up - The 12.8x45R Papal Remington, used from 1870 until at least the late 1880s). I remember reading about attempts made to blow up the rolling block action by firing multiple charges of powder behind multiple bullets. Nothing happened except the noise of firing.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

Nice roller Dave. I bought one just like it years ago but in far worse exterior shape. The bore was excellent shape but I couldn't find any brass to load up and so re barreled it with a Numrich Arms "Creedmore" barrel. Half round half octagon and chambered for 45-70. it was a real hoot to shoot. Unfortunately, I sold it off shortly after getting married. It's the only gun I've regretted selling. Still have the gal though. She's a keeper.
By the way, I don't think your"s is an Argentine model. Those rifles has a short, about 2 to3" octagon profile at the breach end of the barrel, making them the nicest looking of all the rolling block military rifles. It's still a pretty nice looking gun.
You should be able to find a set of dies and a bullet mold for it on Ebay or elsewhere. And brass is available, though expensive, and would be a better option than reforming scarce and nearly as pricey 348 Win.

John