Powders for "full power" 357 magnum 125gr XTP

[rosewood]

I have Longshot on hand so I can try that as well. I use that in my #00 buckshot rounds that I developed and had tested. That work is described in a thread called Project Buckshot on Shotgun World/reloading if anyone is interested.

Longshot is the Unique for heavy loads. Use it in Buckshot, Turkey Shot, Heavy Field loads, 10mm, 40S&W, 45acp, 9x25 dillon, 357sig, 9mm, and 357 mag. Can't think if I have tried it in anything else off the top of my head.

Rosewood

 

[rhodesengr]

Actually they do.

I see it now. Thanks.

 

[BB57]

Longshot will get you over 1,500 fps with a 125 grain, maybe a tad over depending on the revolver etc. I don’t think you are going to hit 1800 fps in a revolver, maybe with a rifle….

It doesn’t seem to be as obnoxious as a 110 loaded round, I quit using the powder several years ago after using the Longshot.

I’ve had similar results even with the heavy weight bullets in .357, 10mm and the bigger magnums.

More bang for the buck if you will.

Regards from the Commonwealth,
Rick Gibbs

I do use H110/Win 296 in my 20” Rossi 92 short rifle and 24” rifle.

With 125 gr XTP bullets I get a velocity of 2210 fps from the 24” barrel and about 30 fps less from the 20” barrel.

Accuracy in both is 2 MOA with the Marbles tang sights and Lyman AHB 17 globe front sights.

I get the same 2 MOA accuracy with Federal factory 158 gr JSPs and they launch at 1820 fps in the 24” barrel.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not a fan of 125 bullet loads for the .357 Magnum so I don't have chronic data on them but for the ones I tested in my Marlin when looking for a hunting round.

I like a 158gr bullet in .357 handguns and a 170gr, 180gr or 200gr bullet in the 18.5" Marlin levergun.

The data for a 125gr bullet in the Marlin is:
2400 - AV 2055 fps
H110 - AV 2239 fps

 

[38SPL HV]

If I had to use 125 gr in 357 Magnum I would load to the “starting loads” specified in published reloading manuals. Here is a link to Speer on-line reloading data for 357 Magnum/125 gr jacketed bullets:

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/357_Magnum_125.pdf

…you have many powder options. On this list I would opt for Unique. I don’t care for the blast and bark of H110/296 and the narrow window you have for it…

I really don’t care for max loads in any cartridge. If I needed them, I would use factory loaded ammunition. If I needed more power say in the 357 Magnum using reloads, I would reach for the next higher magnum, 41 Rem Mag for instance or the more prolific 44 Rem Mag. But that’s me…

Enjoy, have fun, and be safe…

 

[rhodesengr]

I'm not a fan of 125 bullet loads for the .357 Magnum

Can you expand on why you are not a fan of 125? I am pretty new to all this so I am very open to various ideas and opinions. Like I said before, my only reason for choosing 125 for these higher power loads is the energy vs momentum thing. I understand lighter bullets lose their speed quicker with distance. Its the same with shot. #7.5 shot holds its speed better than smaller shot. I have one of the ballistics calculators and this gets talked about frequently in the Trap forums.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Can you expand on why you are not a fan of 125? I am pretty new to all this so I am very open to various ideas and opinions. Like I said before, my only reason for choosing 125 for these higher power loads is the energy vs momentum thing. I understand lighter bullets lose their speed quicker with distance. Its the same with shot. #7.5 shot holds its speed better than smaller shot. I have one of the ballistics calculators and this gets talked about frequently in the Trap forums.

IMO and only my opinion the screaming velocity generated buy lighter bullets abuses the revolver even though the M686 was designed to allow shooting 125gr bullets without damaging the revolver. I'm a fan of using the bullet weights that were used when the cartridge was developed, all cartridges.

I'm like the bigger hit the 158gr bullet supplies over the 125gr bullet but like I said, it's just my opinion. I'm sure many will disagree.

 

[rockquarry]

IMO and only my opinion the screaming velocity generated buy lighter bullets abuses the revolver even though the M686 was designed to allow shooting 125gr bullets without damaging the revolver. I'm a fan of using the bullet weights that were used when the cartridge was developed, all cartridges.

I'm like the bigger hit the 158gr bullet supplies over the 125gr bullet but like I said, it's just my opinion. I'm sure many will disagree.

I think many experienced handloaders would agree with your premise. The original poster's statements on all this seem to be a bit off track. The "energy vs. momentum thing" he mentions doesn't really correlate because for handloading purposes they're the same. Perhaps for some abstract textbook use they are not.

 

[CorvZ061]

I haven't loaded with H110 in a while, have a lb of it left since I quit reloading 44 mag. For my 357 mag loads when I want hot I'll load with VV N110, though most of my 125gr loads are midrange with VV N340. I haven't loaded any with CFE Pistol yet, though I've read where it's a pretty decent powder for midrange loads too.

 

[stansdds]

The purpose of the ultra high velocity 110 and 125 grain JHP in 357 Magnum was to guarantee expansion of the hollow point. Back in the 70's and 80's, bullet technology and materials required very high velocity for reliable expansion. Law enforcement officers really wanted reliable expansion as fully expanded bullets impart more tissue damage and are less likely to exit the target (aka the perp) and retain potentially lethal velocity. Super-Vel was the first to market such ammo, then came Federal, Remington, and Winchester with their high velocity 110 or 125 grain loads. These loads are not really good for hunting, they are of a single use, defense against two-legged animals.

My own experience with trying to duplicate these loads using H-110/W-296 was interesting. I could get pretty close to the velocity of factory ammo, but just like the factory ammo, the fire ball was nuclear. No one wanted to be in the lanes on either side of me at the range! I came to the conclusion that these loads were not of that much practical use as I was not going to make a habit of practicing only with full power 125 grain ammo.

 

[BB57]

The purpose of the ultra high velocity 110 and 125 grain JHP in 357 Magnum was to guarantee expansion of the hollow point. Back in the 70's and 80's, bullet technology and materials required very high velocity for reliable expansion. Law enforcement officers really wanted reliable expansion as fully expanded bullets impart more tissue damage and are less likely to exit the target (aka the perp) and retain potentially lethal velocity. Super-Vel was the first to market such ammo, then came Federal, Remington, and Winchester with their high velocity 110 or 125 grain loads. These loads are not really good for hunting, they are of a single use, defense against two-legged animals.

My own experience with trying to duplicate these loads using H-110/W-296 was interesting. I could get pretty close to the velocity of factory ammo, but just like the factory ammo, the fire ball was nuclear. No one wanted to be in the lanes on either side of me at the range! I came to the conclusion that these loads were not of that much practical use as I was not going to make a habit of practicing only with full power 125 grain ammo.

With my 20” rifle and 24” short rifle I have developed loads for Hornady’s flat point XTP bullets, as opposed to their hollow point XTP bullets. The former are better suited to rifle terminal velocities in the 1200-1700 fps range for the 125 gr FP/XTP and 1150-1800 fps for the 158 gr FP/XTP.

The handgun intended HP/XTP bullets have expansion envelopes of 800 to 1600 fps for the 125 gr and 700 to 1400 fps for the 158 gr bullets.

Given that the 125 gr FP/XTPs launch at an average of 2210 fps in my 24” rifle, they have to travel about 105 yards before they slow to 1700 fps, but expand reliably out to about 230 yards.

With the 158 gr XTPs they launch at just over 1800 fps so they are good to go beyond about 25 yards and expand reliably past 300 yards, about 100 yards farther than I’d ever shoot them.

That said, it’s hard to beat the Federal 158 gr JSP for rifle hunting as it mushrooms very nicely and performs well from 0-230 yards. The 158 gr Sierra JSP works very well also at rifle velocity for a JSP hand load option.

 

[rhodesengr]

Finally got around to making and testing some higher power 357magnum loads. I compared 3 powders: Enforcer, Longshot, and H110. I used Starline brass, Federal SPM primers, and 125gr Hornady XTP bullets. All were made on my Dillon SDB. All were more or less the midpoint in the listed load range. All were shot with my 686 Competitor and 12 shots for each powder. The "listed speed" is just the midpoint of the listed range.

Obviously the H110 had the highest speed. I would not say it felt "taxing" to shoot any of these loads. I could definitely feel the H110 loads a bit more than the other two. I was of course wearing glasses but I am pretty sure something was blowing back and hitting my face (like little prickles). All the speeds are a lot less than the listed speeds but the Hodgdon data was a significantly longer barrel and I assume even the Western Powder data was not done with a revolver (hence extra gas leak). I did some target shooting with the H110 load and it was pretty good. I wouldn't say it was less accurate than my much slower target load which is 158gr at about 1000fps with AA#5.

So, at least for me, the verdict for high power 357 is H110. They were fast, accurate, and fun to shoot. I shall make 100 more tomorrow. The only thing about H110 is that it seemed to barely leave room for the bullet and the listing goes up to 22gr.

Oh and I had zero FTF's using Fed SPM primers. I had previously made some of the Enforcer loads with CCI SPM and some of those FTF'd. I've had FTF with the CCI SP primers in this long also and we discussed that in a different thread over a year ago. I guess the Competitor has a lighter trigger that doesn't always play well with CCI primers.

 

[mike campbell]

Thanks for the detailed post. I do think this load is more about "gee whiz" and "fun factor" rather than anything particularly practical.

IMO, formulated over 40 years of loading, hunting, competing and plinking with the .357 magnum, I'd say you're exactly on track.

If you're looking for GEE WHIZ, try some of your hyper velocity 125HP loads on 1 gallon milk jugs full of water. Nothing beats that fun factor except maybe doing the same with a 185 or 200 HP and a compressed charge of WW296 in a .44 magnum.

On another note, 40 years ago we were carrying this old school Remington 125HP in short barreled 38 specials...

...decades before the advent of the Golden Sabers, Gold Dots, FTX's, etc. Beats me how the urban myth of the non-expanding HP ever took hold. I'm trying to make my stash of 8,000 last my lifetime.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have loaded target and max loads of 110 & 125 copper bullets in my
old 19-5 and newer 686 6" revolvers, over the years but I have gotten
better accuracy at 100 yards with a heavier bullet that is at least 140 grains.

My 357's are all "Stock" by the way, other than maybe different grips
that I use with the factory iron sights.

 

[rhodesengr]

If you're looking for GEE WHIZ, try some of your hyper velocity 125HP loads on 1 gallon milk jugs full of water.

I'd love to but don't have anywhere I can do that. My gun club can be a little lax but I doubt they would allow me to shoot water jugs.

 

[mike campbell]

I feel the pain, but I've never understood the aversion to water jugs. It's water. The plastic jug I'll take with me .... unlike the paper targets that the guy before me left hanging to blow off and litter the grounds.

The bullets impact the berm and stay in the bay... unlike many of the ones that are shot on allowable steel targets at my club.

Likewise, fruit and veggies are forbidden ... makes a mess? They are eco-friendly, biodegradable and feed the mice and bunnies. They are much unlike the toxic waste of lead, pitch and plastic wads that will be threatening the health of wildlife for decades to come on our sporting clays courses.

The way gun people object to such stuff is reminiscent of the anti-gunners ... pure knee-jerk ignorance. Sorry for the hijack. I hope the mods don't find something inappropriate in my rant.