Pre model 10?

[Mercyst]

Sir's, I am looking at a pistol with no model # behind the yoke & has a "v 718791 on the butt of the gun. It has a 4" barrel. The sight's are not adjustable & is in 38 special. Can you identify this gun as a pre model 10?
thanks

 

[P&R Fan]

Welcome to the Forum.
Yes, it is a Pre M10.
Actually what you have is a Military and Police Victory Model. During WWII they stamped a V in front of the serial number. The V was for Victory. Yours was made near the end of the war.
Model numbers started in 1957.
Jim

 

[JP@AK]

Hello
No, your revolver is not a "Pre-Model 10." It is a Victory Model, made in the last part of 1944. These were war-time production guns and yours was produced for use by the U.S. military. These arms were the continuation of the prewar .38 Military & Police revolver. After the war, a key design change was made (in early 1948) which led to the Model 10 in 1957. Only the guns made between 1948 and 1957 are "Pre-Model 10" revolvers.

 

[Mercyst]

Thanks so much for you help.

 

[JP@AK]

Thanks so much for you help.

You are quite welcome. With no disrespect for "P&R Fan" many people think that any pre-1957 .38 Military & Police revolver is a "Pre-Model 10." This is a common mistake that results from not fully understanding the evolution of the type, which goes all the way back to 1899.
I have had gunshop owners even identify revolvers made in the 1920s as Model 10s. This is, of course, totally incorrect and anachronistic. But technically they are not even "pre-Model 10" revolvers. The key change I mentioned in my first post is the hammer design. Until 1948, the M&P used a long throw hammer. This was replaced with the short throw (or "speed") hammer which all Model 10 revolvers have.

 

[Mercyst]

Thanks Jack. Should the yoke open pretty easily?

 

[JP@AK]

If you are up for a bit of education, you can study the hammer on this picture of a Victory Model. The second picture is of a pair of immediate postwar M&P revolvers (shipped in 1946). All three of these have the long throw hammer.
The third picture is of a revolver with the speed hammer like what would be on a Model 10 (unfortunately, I don't have a Model 10 photograph to show you, but the hammer profile would be very similar).

 

[JP@AK]

Thanks Jack. Should the yoke open pretty easily?

Yes. But it might be gummed up from lack of cleaning. Is it stiff?

 

[Mercyst]

I felt that it was stiff. If I can, I am going to get the gun for $200. It has some slite rust damage over the S & W emblem & a littel holster ware. Do you think that is a fair price not seeing the gun. I want to check the lock up again before I purchace.

 

[arjay]

Is the difference between them just the location of the thumb piece on the hammer or is there an internal difference too?

 

[JP@AK]

Yes. Any functional S&W revolver is a potential "buy" at $200. When I say "functional" I mean no serious mechanical problems. A stiffly opening cylinder is most likely a correctable matter. It may be dirty, it may have a loose ejector rod. But usually it can be fairly easily overcome. At $200, you can afford to take the risk, in my opinion, if everything else is okay. I assume the barrel is still at 4" and the gun looks more or less like the one in my photo.
Good luck.

 

[JP@AK]

Is the difference between them just the location of the thumb piece on the hammer or is there an internal difference too?

There is both a structural and a functional difference. The hammer does not have as far to go to the full cock position, nor as far to fall when it is released by the sear. Hence the name "speed" hammer, or more properly, short throw hammer.

 

[arjay]

Thanks JP,so the older type has a longer lock time? My meager collection only goes back to the early fifties

 

[Mercyst]

Thanks Again for your help.

 

[JP@AK]

so the older type has a longer lock time?

Yes. That would be correct. (This goofy site would not allow me to just say, "yes.")

 

[JP@AK]

Thanks Again for your help.

You are very welcome. If you do buy the Victory, please show us some pictures when you get it home. We like photos!