Pre-model 10

[Viking Grampa]

So I bought a gunbroker item that was listed as a model 15-3. What I received was a Pre model 10 serial number was S 9860**.
I am wondering on the value of the Pre Model 10. I'm not completely pissed and will probable keep it if the value is close to what I paid for it. For value purposes, Pre Model 10, 6 inch barrel, original diamond grips, slight wear in great working condition. Thanks for any help.

 

[Green Frog]

So I bought a gunbroker item that was listed as a model 15-3. What I received was a Pre model 10 serial number was S 9860**.
I am wondering on the value of the Pre Model 10. I'm not completely pissed and will probable keep it if the value is close to what I paid for it. For value purposes, Pre Model 10, 6 inch barrel, original diamond grips, slight wear in great working condition. Thanks for any help.

Sounds to me like somebody shipped the wrong gun! If they were specific enough to give the model # and variation, it would be reasonable to assume they knew what they had. Was there a picture in the ad that you were able to see? It would have had to be awfully cheap (read "salvage value") for me to be willing to buy it completely sight unseen. IMHO, a "pre Model 10" would have to be in excellent shape to approach the value of a modest condition (read "well worn") Model 15-3. As with all things, YMMV, but I would be in contact with the seller concerning adjustment or return. But.... it's your gun and your money so this is totally up to you.

Froggie

 

[gmborkovic]

OH MY! there are so many angels here, Im stepping back and watch the outcome.

 

[DWalt]

A really nice M&P might be worth more than a shabby 15-3 beater. But we have no way to know the actual condition of either.

 

[codenamedave]

It's a closed auction, so here's my best guess:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/668375010

They also list it as being chambered in .38 S&W. From what I can see, that looks to be the stamp on the barrel.

[Tip for GB photos: Click on the pic to expand, then right click, then hit "open image in new tab" and you'll see the full size pic.]

 

[deyomatic]

If it's the one pictured then there are a couple of items of note. That is not a pre model 10, it is a post-war Military and Police. Not exactly the same thing.
Also, and I really don't want to sound mean, but the photo doesn't look anything like a S&W Model "X." It clearly predates the model numbers. I would put some of the responsibility on the buyer in this case, assuming the photos were available. Sure, the seller misrepresented the gun, but Caveat Emptor is a phrase that is old enough to still be spoken in Latin, so as consumers it is up to all of us to do our homework.

What if we flipped it around and you got a pristine Registered Magnum for the price of that post war M&P? We'd all be high-fiving and congratulating you.

Again, I am not trying to be nasty on this- chalk it up to a lesson learned.

 

[Targets Guy]

You did just fine with the postwar "S" prefix. With a one line "Made in USA" it is definitely not a Model 15.

 

[DWalt]

At that SN it would be a postwar M&P, probably made in late 1947 and shipped in early 1948, as supported by the hammer shape shown in the auction listing. It very well could be chambered in .38 S&W, as S&W made about 10,000 of those for export around that time period. It's difficult to believe that any dealer could describe it as a Model 15-3. HOWEVER, if it really is a postwar .38 S&W M&P, it would be quite a prize due to its rarity. I'd keep it, even though the grips may not be correct. You got a really good deal by mistake.

The big question: Is the barrel stamped "38 S&W CTG"? If so, get a letter to substantiate what it is.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

How could anybody confuse a fixed sight anything with a pre or post model 15??

 

[vytoland]

S&W model 15 = adjustable rear sight; Baughman quick draw front sight...

S&W .38 Military & Police - postwar = square notch rear sight; fixed round blade front sight.....

the picture in the gunbroker ad tells the true story.....

 

[Absalom]

....
The big question: Is the barrel stamped "38 S&W CTG"? If so, get a letter to substantiate what it is.

The photo is too low resolution to be definite upon enlargement, but it appears to me that the recognizable CTG is placed about where it is on my ordinary .38 Spl. 6" S-prefix M&P, so I wouldn't bet any money on this being a rare .38 S&W. Especially considering how much else the seller screwed up on this listing.

Based on their website, West Coast Armory is a professional full-service gun business with multiple locations, indoor range and gunsmithing, and I am really at a loss how someone could bungle this auction posting so badly. Maybe a summer intern on legal pot?

PS: Just looking at the bid history, this was a 14-day auction with 18 bids total; I can pretty much guarantee you that the seller got multiple messages during that time pointing out the error of his ways, obviously without reaction; that is very odd.

 

[Bobbysixkiller]

Well let me tell ya a story. I bought a pre model 10 that the dealer had marked as a model 8. It was just the number stamped in the yoke but a five screw m&p 38 is what it was. I didnt argue with them because I knew whatI was looking at but not all dealers know what the older guns are. And no I didnt steal a bargain the price was fair. They just didnt research it well

 

[daddio202]

Personally I would take that gun made in 1947- 1948 with love and care as opposed to 1 of many early 70's police carried model 15-3 or any 15-3 for that mtater unless brand new. I think you got a pretty good deal, especially if it turns out to be one of the rare ones. Take some pictures when you receive it and post on this site. These guys will be able to tell you everything about it.

 

[jsfricks]

I'm wondering if the grips are for an N frame. They are over hanging in the area of the front strap a lot.

 

[DWalt]

I'm wondering if the grips are for an N frame. They are over hanging in the area of the front strap a lot.

I hadn't thought of that, but I can't really tell from the auction listing picture. For certain, they are not correct for the post-war M&Ps. If they are N-frame grips, so much the better.

 

[Viking Grampa]

Some answers and more questions

I am a beginner at buying and/or collecting S and W revolvers and don't have anywhere near the knowledge most on here seem to have. There were only 2 pics of the gun and I should have done some more research before bidding, with that said I also looked at the sellers rating's and number of transactions and the fact that it was a large firearms company and an FFL and was not that worried that about any issues, The posting referenced by codenamedave is the correct listing. The side of the Barrel is
" 38 S and W special CTG. On the very top of the barrel it say's
"Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass and a 2nd line has 3 patent dates. My question is still about value, did I get a fair value. My total was 483.20 with everything( gun,shipping and CC fee ). As stated before the gun has some wear but has aged well, Grips are in great shape, mechanical function is all perfect and the barrel is as well. Sooo, keep it at that price or pay to return it and get some money back, maybe, the listing said "As is, no returns or refunds"
As I stated before I'm a newbie at this and your opinion would be helpful, Thanks

 

[daddio202]

I think the biggest question is going to be about the grips. N frame diamond magna can sell for up to $200 themselves. I did a completed auction search on gb for your gun (properly listed) looks like they have been selling for between $299 and $399.If the grips are valuable I think you may have a winner. All my guns from that period are some of the finest most accurate guns I own. More knowledgble people than myself will be along for their oppinions too.

 

[Absalom]

...... The side of the Barrel is
" 38 S and W special CTG. On the very top of the barrel it say's
"Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass and a 2nd line has 3 patent dates. My question is still about value, did I get a fair value. My total was 483.20 with everything( gun,shipping and CC fee ). As stated before the gun has some wear but has aged well, Grips are in great shape, mechanical function is all perfect and the barrel is as well. Sooo, keep it at that price or pay to return it and get some money back, maybe, the listing said "As is, no returns or refunds"
As I stated before I'm a newbie at this and your opinion would be helpful, Thanks

No matter what the listing said, they send you a completely different gun from what they posted (regardless of the correct photos), so reversing the transaction and getting ALL your money back is a no-brainer if you choose to pursue that course. Anyone who would have bought the gun for function (carrying or target shooting) rather than collecting probably would have been on the phone with those guys yelling at them about deceptive advertising and fraud within a few minutes of laying eyes on the gun, and we wouldn't have this discussion.

As for collector's value, the price you paid for the gun in that condition is definitely high, although not outrageously so. I personally like the fixed-sight guns better, but realistically, a Model 15-3 in the same condition as that M&P would likely have a higher resale value.

Ultimately, you really can't nickel-and-dime this decision; you have to figure out whether you're happy enough with the gun to keep it or not, and we can't decide that for you.

 

[DWalt]

I'm really sorry it was not one of those postwar .38 S&W M&Ps. I was hoping for you.

Pricewise, I'll agree with the above, and say that your all-in cost for the M&P is not outrageously out of line in some areas of the country. If the stocks are indeed for an N-frame, you did better, as N-frame Magnas do have considerable interest, and you could sell them and buy more correct K-frame grips and still have a good bit of change left over. At least you got a fairly cheap lesson on the value of knowing exactly what you are buying before you buy it.

 

[Viking Grampa]

I'm really sorry it was not one of those postwar .38 S&W M&Ps. I was hoping for you.

Pricewise, I'll agree with the above, and say that your all-in cost for the M&P is not outrageously out of line in some areas of the country. If the stocks are indeed for an N-frame, you did better, as N-frame Magnas do have considerable interest, and you could sell them and buy more correct K-frame grips and still have a good bit of change left over. At least you got a fairly cheap lesson on the value of knowing exactly what you are buying before you buy it.

How do I know if they are for an N-frame, They are a fraction to big and over hang front and back just a hair.