Pre War 22/32 Kit gun

[tom79]

I have acquired this nice little S&W a few months ago and found out it is a pre-war kit gun, some have said it has the wrong grips?
I searched this site for some answers but is taking a lot of time, but has been some help. So I thought I would post this to see if anybody could help me out.
The serial number is 5345xx, I see they numbered the grips on the inside of the right grip, these if it is numbered is very difficult to read and might be 5 digits or all 6 digits.
I up loaded some pictures (I think?), if they don't show up let me know and advise me how to do it.

 

[Model39]

Grips

You may have been told they are the wrong grips since they don't have medallions in them. Most grips I have seen with non-medallions are usually found on military or police guns,mostly because of the extra work/cost to insert medallions in a gun which would be used more for police work, so why the medallions or extra cost.
Second reason, when I bought my pre-war kitgun, I called Mr. Jinks to discuss it with him before my purchase, and was told to wait til he could check it out (serial number) to make sure it started life as a 4 inch gun, which it did. Mr. Jinks said that when the 4" kitgun was introduced alot of original 6" I frame 22's were sent back and rebarreled to 4" guns.
Your gun may have been one of those, and if it was an original 6" it would have had an oversized (Bekeart style) extension grip on it, and they were probably replaced at some point with the stocks that are currently on it, as they are smaller and look better than the oversized grip.
I have learned never say never with Smith&Wesson though. If the serial number on the grips matches your gun then they are original to that frame. Do the grips happen to have a patent stamp on the bottom of the grips themselves? That would let you know they are not original to your gun, but are replacements somebody added to your gun. Hope that helps.

 

[DCWilson]

Welcome to the forum. The prewar kit guns were made for only four years (1936-1940) before production was suspended so the company could handle wartime contracts. There aren't very man of them and prices tend to be high. Serial numbers run from about 529500 to about 534600, with slightly fuzzy boundaries at either end. That doesn't mean there are 5000 of these guns, as they were numbered in the same series as the .32 Hand Ejector, the .22/32 Target, and the .32 Regulation Police. Production estimates vary, with some collectors thinking no more than 1000 were made, and others willing to acknowledge there may have been twice that many.

Kit guns came with three different stock options -- regular round butt (in which case the serial number is on the butt of the grip frame); the squared off Regulation Police stocks like the ones on your gun (serial number on forestrap), and the oversize two-screw extension stocks familiar from the Bekeart-style .22/32 target revolvers and some earlier I-frame target revolvers. The reason your stocks are likely not original to your gun is that they have no medallions; they date from the 1920s, and the gun is a 1930's model. I take it the serial number you may see there is in pencil rather than pressed into the wood. If you see a five-digit number, those may have been installed once on a .38 Regulation Police, another I-frame model that had its own serial number sequence.

Nice gun. I find them hard to shoot well, but there is no denying their appeal.

You probably know that the .22/32 Kit Gun is essentially the same thing as the .22/32 Target, but with a four-inch barrel instread of six, and the option of small round butt stocks. All Kit Guns have recessed cylinders. The .22/32 Target models have recessed cylinders only if they were made at the same time the Kit Guns were being assembled -- mid to late '30s.

I love these prewar I-frame .22s in all their barrel lengths. If you follow the links under my forum handle, you will see a link to an album in which I have posted a couple of Kit Guns and a .22/32 Target. I also have threads in the forum archives that are devoted to other Kit Guns and "virtual" Kit Guns I have picked up. (A virtual Kit Gun is an older six-inch revolver that has been rebuilt as a Kit Gun; it looks like a KG but has a serial number way out of sequence.)

 

[tom79]

Thanks for your help, it sounds like I would need to get a factory letter to be sure if the barrel has been changed or anything else. Not sure if the extra expense is worth it, I know Colt charges quite a bit depending on the age of weapon.

 

[hsguy]

S&W letters are $50.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

I love those old 22-32 Targets. Great little pistols that shoot very well. Never had a 4 " though. Guess I could have loaded the back of a pickup with small game I've taken with one of these over the years.

 

[Muley Gil]

Tom79,

Welcome to the Forum. You have a fine little revolver there. I had a M34 that I bought new in the 1970s and I've always wanted a prewar one.

"You may have been told they are the wrong grips since they don't have medallions in them. Most grips I have seen with non-medallions are usually found on military or police guns,mostly because of the extra work/cost to insert medallions in a gun which would be used more for police work, so why the medallions or extra cost."

Model39,

The presence or lack of medallions doesn't always have anything to do with the intended use. While the 1917s and Victory models had smooth grips with no medallions, S&W made grips with no medallions for all of their revolvers during the 1920s.

Smith also made .455 revolvers for the British Commonwealth nations during WW I and these had grip medallions. The .38 S&W revolvers built prior to the introduction of the Victory model also had grips with medallions.

 

[Hondo44]

For those grips to be correct for that gun, it would have the serial number stamped on the front grip strap. Is the rear grip strap notched about 1/2 way up where the wood meets it or is the wood thinned to blend in with the grip strap?

With matching numbered grips that gun is in nice enough shape to sell anywhere from $1500 up or with less blue wear up to $3000. A little more maybe in a better economy. Unfortunately, less with non-original grips and less with wrong vintage grips.
Keep it and enjoy it. Or search for period grips for it.

 

[DCWilson]

I see this gun is back up on Gunsamerica (item 934940186) at $6200, which it will never get from an informed buyer. I believe the OP is the proprietor of the gun store in Franklin, TN that is offering the revolver. At any rate, the license holder's first name and his forum handle are in sync.

I remember starting a thread about this gun last year whenit was offered on GA under a different number; I just wanted to warn people about the prices demanded for prewar .22/32 Kit Guns. They are wonderful little guns, and they can be expensive. But they should not be THAT expensive. If you want a prewar KG, you should research before you leap.

 

[Hondo44]

I see this gun is back up on Gunsamerica (item 934940186) at $6200, which it will never get from an informed buyer. I believe the OP is the proprietor of the gun store in Franklin, TN that is offering the revolver. At any rate, the license holder's first name and his forum handle are in sync.

I remember starting a thread about this gun last year whenit was offered on GA under a different number; I just wanted to warn people about the prices demanded for prewar .22/32 Kit Guns. They are wonderful little guns, and they can be expensive. But they should not be THAT expensive. If you want a prewar KG, you should research before you leap.

The OP started this thread right after relisting it. I had asked a question about the grips number.
I'm trying to refigure out what I decided about this one other than the price was off the wall.
I think it might be a 'virtual' KG since the serial number is a couple hundred #s out of range. We don't know if it originally had sq stocks because we don't know if it has a notch backstrap, but I don't think it has because the toe of the grip frame is rounded and a gap is showing with the grips. Plus the serial # is correct for a round butted Bekeart HF Target that came with Target stocks.

But if one was of the opinion that it could be a very early KG gun, I could buy into that too. But again, it would have come with Target stocks like mine with that serial # on the foregrip.

By the way, I picked off a HFT with original Target stocks/silver medallions in the 4XX,XXX range on Gunbroker a couple months back with a barrel cut to 3 1/2" and a fairly nice refinish. For $450 it's a great shooter and a cutie with the 1/2" shorter barrel.

 

[DCWilson]

After going back and forth on this gun and its problematic features, I have come to think it is probably a legitimate prewar Kit Gun, but with non-original Regulation Police stocks. The gun must be a round butt without the rebated frame, for there is no serial number on the forestrap. That's where you'd find it on any .22/32 with either RP or extension target stocks.

On the evidence of serial number placement, I think was originally a round butt gun and the small original stocks were replaced with RP stocks. This could have happened two ways: Either the RP stocks were whittled to fit the non-rebated frame, or the frame's backstrap was filed down after the fact to mate with the RP stocks. I have a KG to which that was done.

After looking at the photos of this one more closely, and comparing some other KGs that sold at much lower prices, I think I would value this one in the $1500-1750 range (even with the wrong stocks). That's about $500 less than what I proposed in last year's thread, but this year I'm a little more cynical about KGs in less than 99% condition.

 

[Hondo44]

After going back and forth on this gun and its problematic features, I have come to think it is probably a legitimate prewar Kit Gun, but with non-original Regulation Police stocks. The gun must be a round butt without the rebated frame, for there is no serial number on the forestrap. That's where you'd find it on any .22/32 with either RP or extension target stocks.

On the evidence of serial number placement, I think was originally a round butt gun and the small original stocks were replaced with RP stocks. This could have happened two ways: Either the RP stocks were whittled to fit the non-rebated frame, or the frame's backstrap was filed down after the fact to mate with the RP stocks. I have a KG to which that was done.

After looking at the photos of this one more closely, and comparing some other KGs that sold at much lower prices, I think I would value this one in the $1500-1750 range (even with the wrong stocks). That's about $500 less than what I proposed in last year's thread, but this year I'm a little more cynical about KGs in less than 99% condition.

David,
Sorry I was confusing this one with another...I remember now. The absence of a number on the forestrap is what triggered my question to his adv site about matching numbered grips. Yes, must be a KG with wrong grips and not a new low number for your data base.

Thanks,

 

[Masterpiece]

Tom79,
I think posting a couple photos of the inside of the Grips & the Grip Frame will cut down some of the speculation as to it's Correctness!! Especially some close-up's of the inside Left Side of the Grip Frame to see if there are any rework stamps or dates stamped into the frame. The photos of the Grip Frame also should rule out if it's a Virtual Kit Gun or not!!

 

[tom79]

22-32 Kit Gun

Hi everybody, got the factory letter from S&W this week. Before posting this I had to catch up on all the posts about this. So I could try to answer some of your questions and speculations.
Yes, I have this listed on Guns America and I have a gun shop here in Franklin. More people these days are bringing old guns in to sell to make the rent payment I guess. You just don't know what might come through the door these days.
Well you guys were right, the letter says it left the factory on "June 3, 1940" and delivered to "Sutcliffe Hardware Co., Louisville, KY." and had a 4" blue with checkered walnut round butt grips with the large silver medallions (anybody have any spare grips?).
The frame has not been altered, I'll try to get more pictures posted.
I'll try not to stay away so long. Weekends (Sunday usually) is my only time.
Thanks for you help, Tom

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Tom,
Glad to hear after all the speculation that it "Did" Letter!! The Grips are going to be a tough find though!! Large Medallion I-Frame Grips to fit these are a Rare Bird & aren't found everyday. Although,if there are a pair to be found I'm sure someone here will chime in!!