pre war K22 range report

[skyraider]

Yesterday I went to the range with the K22 Outdoorsman I purchased recently. All I can say is WOW!!! That is the nicest shooting revolver I own. It is accurate with a great trigger, tremendous sights, etc.

It's shooting a little low right now--about 1" at 10 yds. This is the only prewar revolver I own with adjustable sights, and the rear sight adjustment is different than the postwar guns. First, the sight assembly fits perfectly into a machined groove in the topstrap that is so perfect that you can barely see that it is a different piece. There are three screws on top--two tiny ones that I assume are the mounting screws, and one that's small but not as small as the others, and I think it is the elevation adjustment screw. I can't get it to move. The gun probably hadn't been shot in ages before I acquired it. What would you use to get these screws to turn?

The windage adjustment screw (both sides) is also much smaller than on my newer revolvers. It won't budge, either.

The other funny thing I noticed about this gun is the hammer pull. At first I had a difficult time getting the hammer all the way back to shoot single action. Then I remembered that somewhere around 1949 S&W shortened the throw a small amount on the hammer. It's hard to believe that the tiny distance they shortened the hammer throw is noticeable, but it is.

Muscle memory is an interesting thing. My hand is so used to the short hammer throw that it was stopping where it knew the proper location was for single action shooting on later S&W revolvers, and wasn't pulling the hammer back far enough.

Anyway, this gun is a keeper. For shooting, it is on a par with my Model 41 that was manufactured in 1979.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Paul Moore

 

[DCWilson]

Those are great guns. I'm glad you had a fine day with it at the range.

The rear sights on these prewar revolvers are not intuitive. The front small screw is the mounting screw and should never be touched unless you are taking the sight off the gun. The second small screw is a lock screw for vertical adjustment. Loosen it a bit, adjust the sight elevation with the big screw, and then tighten the small screw.

The horizontal adjustment screws work as a team. Loosen the one on the side you want to shift the blade towards, then tighten the opposing screw until the notch has been pushed to where you want it. Then tighten the first screw again to lock the whole system down. You might have to put a drop of penetrating oil on these screws if they haven't been turned in 70 years.

You will regret it if you back one of these tiny screws all the way out. I speak from experience.

 

[skyraider]

thanks

Great info, David, and thanks a ton. Now it makes sense. Since there are "heads" on both sides of the windage adjustment, I should have figured that out. The elevation adjustment I would never have figured out without your explanation.

Have a great Thanksgiving,

Paul Moore

 

[H Richard]

A drop or two of Kroil left to sit for a few hours can make the screws move a little easier. But be sure to wipe all traces of the oil off the screws before you attempt to put a screwdriver in the slot and move it.

 

[rburg]

I agree with all said so far. There are ways to make screws move (like the old Nazi films where the SS guy says "we have ways".) If the Kroil doesn't work, go to plan B. Go buy or hunt in your garage for an old can of ATF (automatic transmission fluid). There are different types, but it doesn't matter for this.

Just take the wood off the gun (always) because you don't want to discolor them. Then find a pan you can prop the gun in upside down. Pour in ATF until the top strap is covered. Then put it in a window sill where there's sun. Its one of the very best penetrating oils around, and its cheap. Give it a day or two to soak. Then try the loosening routine again.

The worst thing you can do is damage the screw head. Don't do that.

There are two other options. Hold the sights a little high and be happy with it. Or try different ammo. Higher velocity ammo tends to shoot low, lower velocity ammo has the bullet in the barrel longer so its more influenced by recoil and shoots higher. If your gun is shooting low, try shooting some lower velocity ammo. You didn't tell us what you're shooting now. If its High Velocity, just move to standard velocity stuff for a test. Maybe you'll find the gun just does better with it.

I have a lot of odd ideas. One is that if you're shooting a prized prewar revolver, you really shouldn't want to change the sights very often. And there are even different rear blades available to accomplish the same thing. Ruger sight blades can be adapted to do what you seek. They're kind of like Ruger guns, too fat. But you can easily thin them down with some sandpaper work, then reblue the blade. Higher/lower can be done based on the desired end product with a little time.

And just for fun, you can get some of that Mexican stuff that shoots 60 grain bullets to really raise the point of impact. I don't recommend that approach, but one time maybe you should spring the $ for a project and test it. Its not all that painful.

 

[skyraider]

I agree with all said so far. There are ways to make screws move (like the old Nazi films where the SS guy says "we have ways".) If the Kroil doesn't work, go to plan B. Go buy or hunt in your garage for an old can of ATF (automatic transmission fluid). There are different types, but it doesn't matter for this.

Just take the wood off the gun (always) because you don't want to discolor them. Then find a pan you can prop the gun in upside down. Pour in ATF until the top strap is covered. Then put it in a window sill where there's sun. Its one of the very best penetrating oils around, and its cheap. Give it a day or two to soak. Then try the loosening routine again.

The worst thing you can do is damage the screw head. Don't do that.

There are two other options. Hold the sights a little high and be happy with it. Or try different ammo. Higher velocity ammo tends to shoot low, lower velocity ammo has the bullet in the barrel longer so its more influenced by recoil and shoots higher. If your gun is shooting low, try shooting some lower velocity ammo. You didn't tell us what you're shooting now. If its High Velocity, just move to standard velocity stuff for a test. Maybe you'll find the gun just does better with it.

Dick,

Thanks for the ideas. A very good friend owns a machine shop. I called him to ask about penetrating oil. He said use ATF mixed with acetone. Hopefully, none of these ideas will mar or remove the bluing. You are absolutely correct about messing up the screws. I don't want to do that. However, my friend, the machinist, can get any screw known to man, and he can usually tell what they are just by looking at them. He and I are both model railroaders, as well as 2nd amendment supporters, and you deal with lots of small screws in model trains.

Thanks,

Paul Moore

 

[rburg]

If you google "Eds Red" you'll find other things you can add to the witch's brew. The most effective ingredients are the ATF, followed by the Acetone. The problem with the acetone is that the container you soak the gun in must be covered if its got acetone in it. Otherwise and maybe even if its covered the acetone will evaporate. If Eds Red caused any finish damage we'd have read about it all over the internet. Its an old formula and its been in use for decades. The problem with it is the formula if followed makes gallons of the stuff.

Good luck.

 

[skyraider]

If you google "Eds Red" you'll find other things you can add to the witch's brew. The most effective ingredients are the ATF, followed by the Acetone. The problem with the acetone is that the container you soak the gun in must be covered if its got acetone in it. Otherwise and maybe even if its covered the acetone will evaporate. If Eds Red caused any finish damage we'd have read about it all over the internet. Its an old formula and its been in use for decades. The problem with it is the formula if followed makes gallons of the stuff.

Good luck.

Apparently, the acetone acts as a thinner and helps the tranny fluid penetrate. Since the atf is basically an oil (unlike the batf, which is basically caustic), the acetone evaporating leaves a film of oil.

Thanks for the info,

Paul Moore

 

[gharrod]

PB Blaster is the best penetrating oil I've used, and I've used it on stubborn gun screws, rusted nuts and bolts on boat trailers and our pop-up camper, stubborn plumbing fixtures, you name it. It's available at most auto parts stores like Pep Boys, Advance, Auto Zone, etc.

 

[rboineau]

Probably you are already using screwdrivers of the proper size and shape. . MUST use a close-fitting driver with hollow-ground blade for those sight screws, as it is all too easy to have an improper blade "cam out" and ruin the slot. Good luck.

 

[Oyeboteb]

For some reason the images are not coming up for me. ( Could it be, because there are none??? Lol...)

Post some Images for Pete's sake!!

 

[rct269]

Seeing as how nobody has asked, it seems as though most folks (except for me) seem to understand about lower velocity ammo being in the barrel longer, and being more affected by recoil. I'd like to learn a whole lot more about that.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Nightowl]

I seem to recall that high speed .22 LR is a later development. So, I'm wondering if the sights were adjusted for standard velocity ammo that was most available when the gun was produced.

 

[skyraider]

For some reason the images are not coming up for me. ( Could it be, because there are none??? Lol...)

Post some Images for Pete's sake!!

Nobody else seemed to need pictures. Besides, I don't know who "Pete" is...

Paul

 

[skyraider]

PB Blaster is the best penetrating oil I've used, and I've used it on stubborn gun screws, rusted nuts and bolts on boat trailers and our pop-up camper, stubborn plumbing fixtures, you name it. It's available at most auto parts stores like Pep Boys, Advance, Auto Zone, etc.

We were out of town and I'm just now back where I can access the internet. Actually, PB Blaster is what I've tried. So far, it hasn't done anything. I even put a very small space heater pointed at the gun to heat it up a little, but it still didn't do anything.

Maybe I'll try again, because someone else suggested the PB Blaster.

Thanks,

Paul Moore

 

[skyraider]

Probably you are already using screwdrivers of the proper size and shape. . MUST use a close-fitting driver with hollow-ground blade for those sight screws, as it is all too easy to have an improper blade "cam out" and ruin the slot. Good luck.

Yes, I am using a screwdriver that fits about perfectly. A friend who is a machinist ahs some with hollow ground blades. They won't even move the screw. I've quit trying to loosen it for now. I don't want to damage the screw.

Thanks,

Paul Moore

 

[skyraider]

Seeing as how nobody has asked, it seems as though most folks (except for me) seem to understand about lower velocity ammo being in the barrel longer, and being more affected by recoil. I'd like to learn a whole lot more about that.

Ralph Tremaine

We're talking tiny units of time--microseconds or something, but a slower round stays in the barrel a little longer. After the powder fires, the barrel starts to deflect upwards. The longer a round is in the barrel, the farther the barrel has deflected up before the round exits the barrel. As a result, the speed of the bullet will affect the bullet's placement.

Recently I bought a Model 10-5 3" gun to be my carry gun. I tested a couple of different types of ammunition at the range. Standard load (158 grain bullet with standard powder load) actually hit the target 1" higher at 10 yards than 125 grain hollow point rounds. The lighter rounds had a higher muzzle velocity, and exited the barrel on a lower trajectory than the 158 grain ammunition did.

Have a great week. Sorry it took me this long to reply. We were out of town and just returned.

Paul Moore

 

[rct269]

You seem to be saying the gun begins movement in recoil at the same time the bullet begins its movement. That seems unlikely. The bullet weighs 40 grains----give or take. The gun weighs 15,312.5 grains----give or take. It takes, as you noted, a small amount of time for the force provided by the burning powder/expanding gases to accelerate the 40 grain bullet from a standing start to whatever the muzzle velocity may be----doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter because it takes a whole lot longer for that same force to accelerate the 15,312.5 grain gun from a standing start to movement (in recoil)------------340.3 times as long if I've done my math properly----which is more than problematic.

So, it would seem the bullet is long gone from the barrel of the gun before there's any movement from/by recoil. Now, if/when somebody comes up with a gun that weighs the same as the bullet it's firing, the acceleration of both objects (bullet and gun) will be identical-------and that's what you want to go up against in a gunfight; 'cause you'll be as safe as if you were sitting in church!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[beagleye]

...it takes a whole lot longer for that same force to accelerate the 15,312.5 grain gun from a standing start to movement (in recoil)------------340.3 times as long if I've done my math properly...

Ralph, I think you may be confusing acceleration with time to start movement. The gun should start to move immediately, just a lot slower than the bullet.

Obviously I am not a physicist and there is nothing less dignified than 2 non physicists having a physics dispute on the internet. So I am going to just say slower bullets do hit higher from a handgun. I ain't totally sure why, but they definitely usually do.

 

[bigmoose]

The gun should start to move immediately, just a lot slower than the bullet.

I would tend to agree with this line of thinking, but it's been a very long time since I cracked a physics book. Something along the lines of "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" (one of Newton's Laws)
MV=MV