Precision guys....308 loading...help

Lots of good information here but since you are shooting a gas-gun some things require more attention. Adequate headspace clearance is critical with a semi-auto, typically I like to have at least .003 - .005 on my loaded rounds. Uniform primer pockets for safety, not accuracy - I use a tungsten carbide cutter from Sinclair. I've also noted that AR-10s are a little different from the M1A I usually shoot, they seem to need heavier charges of slower burning powders to function. I use IMR-4895 and H-4895 in my M1A but had to go to IMR-4064 to get my friends S&W MP10 to function. Semi-autos are pretty hard on brass too, so I prefer military brass such as Lake City, IMI, or the new Starline Lake City equivalent.

If you don't have it, this pdf by Zediker on loading for the M1A explains a lot.

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf
 
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Lots of good information here but since you are shooting a gas-gun some things require more attention. Adequate headspace clearance is critical with a semi-auto, typically I like to have at least .003 - .005 on my loaded rounds. Uniform primer pockets for safety, not accuracy - I use a tungsten carbide cutter from Sinclair. I've also noted that AR-10s are a little different from the M1A I usually shoot, they seem to need heavier charges of slower burning powders to function. I use IMR-4895 and H-4895 in my M1A but had to go to IMR-4064 to get my friends S&W MP10 to function. Semi-autos are pretty hard on brass too, so I prefer military brass such as Lake City, IMI, or the new Starline Lake City equivalent.

I'll build on this a bit.

Powders for the M1A and M14

The M1A/M14 gas system isn't as sensitive to gas port pressure as an M1 Garand, where slower burning powders can bend the operating rod, but there is still a fairly narrow range that will produce reliably cycling without beating up the tappet or operating rod.

M59 Ball, M80 ball, M62 Tracer and M276 Tracer (dim) all used WC 846 powder with their 146-150 gr projectiles.

M60 HPT and M61 AP used IMR 4475.

M852 Match ammo used IMR 4895 with the 168 gr SMK.

M118 Match used IMR 4895 and the later M118 Special Ball used WC 846 under a 173 gr FMJBT.

BLC(2) is essentially the canister grade equivalent of WC 846, while H335 is essentially the canister grade equivalent of WC844. Bear in mind however that WC 844 is just one end of what used to be a broader specification for WC 846, so the original M59 loadings encompassed the whole spectrum with the powder charge adjusted accordingly to develop the desired pressure and velocity. That's why you need to take any nominal loadings for a military cartridge with a large grain of salt.

Even with canister powders 42 grains of BLC(2) from one lot is not necessarily going to develop the same pressure and velocity as BLC(2) from another lot.

If look at powder burn rate chart the range between BLC(2) and Reloader 15 is where you probably want to stay with an M1A.

My preference was always IMR-4064 with my M1A match rifle and that was reflected by most of the M1A match shooters I knew back in the day.

Brass issues

The 7.62x51 chamber is .013" longer than the .308 Win chamber. You do not need this much excess headspace if your rifle is clean and well maintained, and I order my service match barrels with a .308 chamber, in the USMC fashion. I then use a small base sizing die to bring the brass back to new dimensions.

If you have a 7.62mm NATO chamber you will get significant stretch on firing new brass or ammunition in the chamber, and if you set the shoulder all the way back to the new condition, you'll get that stretch each time you fire the cartridge. However, if you don't set the shoulder back far enough it won't feed reliably. If you don't also reduce the base diameter enough, it also won't feed, so full length resizing or even small base resizing to new dimensions are the only valid options - and that means short case life.

That initial stretch is one of the reasons military brass is thicker (the other is to survive the more energetic extraction forces on some full auto weapons - the M60 and M14 in particular. But it's not thick enough to endure repeated stretching in the .013" longer chamber, so case life is seriously limited in an M1A or M14 - about 3 reloads and 4 firings in total.

The HK 91 and similar clones use a delayed recoil roller locking system that has rollers that are designed for very narrow recoil parameters. If you shoot a load with excessive recoil, the bolt will open while the chamber pressure is still too high, and the brass will both take an incredible beating, and be ejected about 25 yards. In that condition, the striations on the brass will be so deep and the brass so deformed that reloading is very difficult if not impossible. If your ejection is that strong, your recoil impulse is way too strong for the locking system.

This means that while the HK 91 is not powder sensitive, it is very load sensitive and the total recoil impulse has to match the engineering of the rollers. It also means that brass like in the HK 91 is also very short.

Primer pockets

You do need the primer to fully seat so that it is not standing proud above the base of the cartridge, but again I've never seen any need to clean primer pockets to accomplish this. In fact, tumbling media stuck in the flash hole is far more likely to create a primer or flash hole issue.

You will however need to remove the primer pocket crimp from any non-match brass as this will interfere with seating the primer. I prefer to swage the crimp rather than a cutter to remove metal from the cartridge head and I use a primer pocket swage from RCBS.
 
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Ok..gents, I appreciate the info.

Which of these posts should I ignore? Because they dont relate to my specific 308 AR10 rifle?

The last thing I need is to follow info that is for a bolt rifle or M1 Garand...and end up hurting myself.

Please list the posts I should ignore...post #
 
BB57's remarks are spot on! Also take the time to download and read the Zedicker pdf that is mentioned in post #14...it is VERY well done.

By staying within these parameters your AR10 will be just fine and probably very accurate as well.

Randy
 
I shoot an handload a lot of varied .308. From my R700 26" Varmint bolt to 308 subsonic and for my M1A semi. A few questions, first what exactly is the barrel length and twist in your AR10 ? Secondly if I could offer some precision shooting tips moving forward, I strongly suggest ditching the snack table as a bench. You will get a lot if excessive movement and you will get rifle "bounce". You will gain far more rigidity shooting prone off a mat. Shooting bipod is a bit more challenging than shooting off a rest. With a bipod you want to "load" the bipod by gently forcing your shoulder into the buttstock. Many precision bipod shooters will loop straps from their shooting mat around the legs of the bipod to prevent movement. I shoot benchrest so I screw a piece of 1x3 strapping 20" long right to the wooden bench, then rest the bipod legs against the 1X3.
 
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18" Proof Research Carbon Fiber barrel.
1:11.2 twist

I normally shoot from a matt, not using bipod, Caldwell sand bags front and rear.
 
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I have never loaded for a "precision" semi-auto, only a bolt gun, but I expected 1/4" at 100 yds that held up proportionately out to 500+ yds.

Case prep, including flash hole deburring, trim length, case mouth deburring (inside and outside), primer pocket uniforming, and proper case cleaning. Most prep work needs to be done on new brass only, but trim length and cleaning every time. Neck size only on fired cases, which keeps the fire formed to your chamber intact. Over All Length measured for the proper distance off the rifling for bullet seating may or may not be possible in your semi-auto for magazine feeding. Hand weigh every charge and trickle to exact load.

This is not going to be "fast" reloading, but will be "precision". A single stage press may work better than your Dillon.
 
18" Proof Research Carbon Fiber barrel.
1:11.2 twist

I normally shoot from a matt, not using bipod, Caldwell sand bags front and rear.

So my R700 Varmint is a 1-12" twist, and it shoots best with 155's and 168's. I never had much success attempting to shoot 175's. Faster twist barrels favor heavier (longer) bullets. I think you will find the 168 SMK or Nosler CC will be a sweet precision bullet with your barrel. The 168 gr match bullet is the "do all" precision match bullet for 1-10" to 1-12" barrels. If shooting off a sand bag get yourself a rear "rabbit ear" bag to support the rear of the buttstock. After that it's all about trying powders and charges. I have excellent success with Win 748 , Varget and 2000MR with the 168's in 30 cal. When loading for the 30 cal semi's you want to makes sure you have the proper casing shoulder setback to ensure the cartridge fully chambers. A case guage is a great tool that guarantees you have the correct shoulder set back. You can also test by loading and empty resized casing and verify the bolt fully closes and locks. Good luck
 
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@Tanklegacy,

I am afraid that you may be expecting more from your AR10 than it is capable of delivering. I am not knocking your equipment, but basing my comments on almost 30 years as an NRA competitor.

After an accident 10 years ago left me disabled, I can't shoot service rifle matches any more, I am shooting F class matches now. I now shoot the following load in my Remington 700 BDL Varmint at 600 yards and 1000 yards, and it should be safe in your AR10, if you don't load via the magazine. I have replicated M118LR ammo with this recipe: 41.8gr IMR4895, CCI benchrest primers, and Sierra 175gr MatchKings loaded a hair long, in GI Lake City cases, with a 24" barrel muzzle velocity of 2558 fps. WARNING: this load tailored to MY rifle!

Things to keep in mind:
1. Your cartridge overall length is limited to the size of your magazine, IFF you plan to feed from the magazine. If you plan to load every round singly, you have no limitations.
2. You need to know your rifle's leade, if you are going to load long and feed each round through the ejection port. This can be achieved using a Stoney Point style C.O.L guage.
3. You need to both chronograph your load, and shoot a waterfall target noting vertical displacement at distance. Vertical displacement and minimal extreme velocity spread indicate your load with the greatest accuracy potential!
4. Back when I was able to shoot service rifle, I shot a M1MkII Garand and an M1A. I tried to load match grade ammo with my Dillon 550B using IMR4895 (stick powder), but I could not get consistent weight charges. Consider a single stage press for precision ammo using stick powder.
5. You need a barrel length that will allow the powder to burn completely to give maximum velocity. You want the bullet to stay supersonic at target, you may be short changing yourself with an 18" barrel. I have been able to keep the aforementioned load supersonic at 1000 yards with a 24" barrel in my Remington 700 Varmint, but it goes subsonic by 1050 yards.

Best of luck!
 
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