President to Close Gun Show LoopHole

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I bought a shotgun at a gun show once. While I was haggling I showed some hesitation and the dealer misread me offered to make it a "private sale." But there are always a few people walking around trying to "private sale" a few gins. I've always wondered how many of them might be dealers too.

This doesn't seem to be a huge problem, but it is not a huge inconvenience either. Seems like small potatoes.
 
I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when the ATF had a big push to get rid of the "kitchen table" dealers. Now they want to go back to it? I'm in.

They have not changed their minds. ATF and city/county zoning will preclude many/most of those they are targeting from qualifying for a FFL.

Its all part of the plan.
 
You know what ... I think I have it figured out ...
... They simply want to put an end to Gun Shows ...
I believe they want to put an end to us owning guns ...
A group of free men are too hard to control if they are armed ...
Gary

You've got all of that right, but you forgot that they also don't want you voting and someday they will be trying to take that too....shortly after they get your guns.
 
Colorado initiated background checks for all sales, except c&r, in 2013. Didn't slow down things too much at the shows, law abiding people will follow the rules as we know. Now we have a 3 day waiting period (unless the sale is to a ffl holder) but I haven't been since that went in to effect. Supposedly arrangements are made with a local ffl/s to handle the physical transfer/recertification.
 
As is normally the case, many doomsdayers here making their usual negative comments. It would certainly stand to reason that the big gunshow promoters have seen such legislation in the works for a long time and have plans to deal with it in the most efficient manner possible.

It would seem to a reasonable person that this would include having tables for FFL holders solely to handle transfer transactions between individuals. It's not the end of the world or the end of gun shows.
 
The negative commenters and doomsdayers are living in the reality of a rogue president and atf who think they are above the law. This is flat out illegal what he did, and of course will put a huge dent in gun shows. It's reality, and the Big Guy thinks he can get away with it...hello Supreme Court!
 

Based on that affidavit there is little doubt the ATF needed to look at this guy. There also seems little doubt they went to serve the warrant in the sketchiest way possible. It is hard to imagine how kicking in the door to the man's house in the dark was not a stupidly risky option. Skeptics might wonder if it was not a political stunt gone wrong. Merrick Garland taking cues from Janet Reno?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...S&cvid=9af0a57b3d454f3ee33838f41fe34af5&ei=12
 
Knocking on a door and announcing you are police and have a warrant during 6 AM and 10 PM is exactly what the law requires. Shooting at the police is stupid. And illegal.

Let's say I am skeptical. You see the guys with the battering ram right behind the guy who covered the doorbell camera. Maybe he said, "Police," maybe not. No sound on the clip.

No body cams, (left in the office) and in the dark. (Local sunrise was not until 0714 CDT on that day) Legal? Barely? Maybe? Confrontational and risky...don't need much of a tin hat to think so. If you wanted a shootout, they picked a good way to provoke one.

After watching the Dettelbach and Bort clown show on GMA hitting all the administration talking points, bump stocks, Glock switches, ghost guns and unlicensed dealers gun show loophole I wonder if it was connected. "Somebody" wanted a high visibility case.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/othe...-to-assemble-ghost-gun-on-live-tv/ar-BB1jzjDf
 
The Arkansas SP is handling the investigation and is very properly saying nothing until completion. Once they are done, the local DA will get it. This in in spite of the clear jurisdiction of that could be asserted by the FBI and the US Attorney; some folks wouldn't believe them either.

Speculation on what did or didn't happen is just that - speculation. Wait for the facts.
 
As is normally the case, many doomsdayers here making their usual negative comments... It's not the end of the world or the end of gun shows.

Only one of those nothing to see here, move along folks... moments?

About the only charitable analysis I can come up with for that view of this latest prohibition/restriction is that the unthinking on all sides of the voter spectrum simply haven't been paying attention.

Waiting to see when the first rational argument that this is actually a positive regulatory change for Americans gets posted...
 
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Knocking on a door and announcing you are police and have a warrant during 6 AM and 10 PM is exactly what the law requires. Shooting at the police is stupid. And illegal.

It's also speculation to assume that the warrant wasn't executed in a way that gave him reasonable cause to believe this was a home invasion - rather than police executing a warrant in a manner that complied with existing case law.

Any relevant information from case law on HOW that warrant should be executed? Exigent circumstances and giving the occupants of the home reasonable time and opportunity to lawfully comply?

Any views on approaching this as a warrant with the suspect having firearms by deciding that everyone in the 10+ agents involved would NOT wear their bodycams as regulations have required for over a decade? He's dead... any of the agents being disciplines for refusing to follow regulations?

Just a uniform coincidental accident by every one of the agents involved that not one was wearing their body cam despite wearing all their battle rattle? Was that to make all the agents involved somehow or other safer? Rather than making sure there wouldn't be any video record of whatever happened and how they acted when they executed the warrant?

Is it stupid - but legal and more dangerous - to have a potentially confrontational warrant execution with a suspect while he's in his home at oh-dark-thirty, rather than positioning yourselves outside his home where you can approach him from several different sides when he comes out during the day to go to work, get a coffee, mow the lawn, etc?

You can manage 10+ agents to make a raid in the dark - but can't manage to round up the same number of agents (or more likely half that number), to walk up to him from different directions from cover when he comes out of his house in the daylight? Had enough time to plan for a ten man raid, but not enough time to plan to arrest him at work while others then served the warrant at his house?

Why is it better to execute a warrant as they did here, in the dark, and the necessity of covering the security camera so those inside couldn't see on the monitor that you were dressed as police - if they actually did announce they were police with a warrant with time to respond, before smashing the door? The wife says she heard nothing but crashing before the gunfire.

How was that better and safer for all concerned rather than confronting the suspect outside his home in the open and in daylight, dressed and armed in the same manner? Where he'd have a choice - not a chance.

Its been a long time since I was serving warrants, but we wouldn't have even dreamed of attempting this way of serving this warrant on this particular suspect in this manner. With this particular guy, with these charges, our scalps would have been hanging from somebody's office door if we had.

Maybe somebody with a background like drug cartels, biker gangs, escaped violent criminals, armed robbers, etc... but this guy?

In what little we can see concerning this, there were no circumstances that justify it. For one thing, detaining him somewhere outside his home, showing him the warrant and then executing that warrant also prevents him from destroying any evidence while at the same time minimizing the potential for a lethal confrontation, which is exactly what happened after they did it this way. They killed their bad guy - but they also got one of theirs wounded. That's a win... apparently.

And what if the manner that the warrant was served left this suspect with reasonable justification to fear a home invasion? Dark of night, his door security camera he sees has been deliberately disabled, and somebody who may or may not be shouting 'police' is at the same time trying to crash through his door? The police or gang bangers most likely to operate like that at oh-dark-thirty in the morning?

It may well have been legal other than deliberately refusing to wear the mandated body cams to record their actions during the raid, but doing this in such an unnecessarily provocative and dangerous manner was beyond stupid.

Aside from killing the suspect, by not confronting him outside the home at a time and place of their choosing, they ended up with him being able to fire from inside his home and hit one of the ATF outside his home in the dark.

Worst. Way. Possible. Legal or not.

This is becoming a common theme in federal law enforcement, and that is not a positive for the general law enforcement profession; it is the complete opposite.
 
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'We' really don't know enough to have decided anything - that's why investigations are done.

Most warrants served on known defendants with multiple felony violations and at their most likely locations are gamed out in the pre-op planning. Generally, the DA or AUSAs are consulted as well. That's been true to my personal knowledge since at least the 1980s.

https://ntoa.org/pdf/NTOA_Pre-Planned_Risk_Assessment.pdf
 
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The Arkansas SP is handling the investigation and is very properly saying nothing until completion. Once they are done, the local DA will get it. This in in spite of the clear jurisdiction of that could be asserted by the FBI and the US Attorney; some folks wouldn't believe them either.

Speculation on what did or didn't happen is just that - speculation. Wait for the facts.

What I don't understand is why Arkansas is handling the investigation when the warrant was for federal charges.
 
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