Price gouging

[68Dave]

How does it end? I've read gouging threads, hoarding threads, I'm out and you have too much threads. When does it end? I've got plenty of components but do feel kind of bad opening another brick of primers knowing that it may not be replaced.
It's all nuts and upside down. I long for the days of normal, or at least my normal. I thought maybe 2021 would be close, maybe 2022…
David

 

[Cdog]

There are unscrupulous people that buy to sell at secondary market prices in many commodities.

Bourbon is one of the first to mind.

There's also the law of supply and demand. Why would any retailer sell a product at regular price knowing the likelihood of replacing the product any time soon is almost nil?

Why would I sell primers today @ $40 today, and have to spend $50 to replace them?

I've bought a lot of product from Ga. Arms over the years. No I wasn't at all happy to see powder prices jump $20/lb at their retail location, but I understand why it did. They have to slow the sales down to have something on the shelf when you come in needing something. Empty shelves ain't good for either side of the counter.

Most LGS are at the mercy of the same people we are. Their wholesale suppliers aren't interested in selling hard to get products to the small independent shops. If and when the wholesale folks get product it will go to the largest buyers first.

Staying afloat trying to have inventory on hand in the retail market ain't as simple as many obviously think it is.

When much of your customer base are handloaders it's hard to sell a gun, new caliber, new press, powder measure, priming tools, etc, when you have nothing to light a fire.

I'm outside of Atlanta, kinda sub-suburban and don't know how most of the LGS have survived this long.

Competition keeps prices down, when supply dries up so does competition. Free market

 

[Johnnu2]

SEVENS.... I stole some of your words which I totally agree with, and continue to preach:
"My other point?! Primer and powder flippers have NO INCENTIVE to throw money at these things if there aren't folks buying from them. Guy who started this thread is precisely and exactly the reason that opportunists buy and flip powder and primers (and ammo, and magazines, and guns, and concert tickets and anything else that "gotta have it!" guys will pay 3x and be disgusted over…) and YET still pay.
If nobody paid, there would be no incentive for them."

I'm a staunch supporter of the FREE MARKET system too. I normally find no fault with 'gougers' and 'free marketeers'. If people are undisciplined enough to buy at their prices, then they really have no 'right' to complain.

WE control the MARKET.... if we decide that we are angry enough to stop this thievery, we will stop shooting and NOT BUY. It's the ONLY WAY to return to 'normal' prices... If we shut them off completely, we may even find them desperate to dump their inventory.

IMHO,
J.

 

[SS336]

Trap shooters have the mistaken notion that the huge containers of fast pistol powder they buy are for shotgun shells. When they move on to other things those containers hit the pre-owned powder market. Their Red Dot goes a long way in target pistol loads.

Tell me about it.
When we moved here from Florida to be near the Grandkids I stopped shooting as much Trap and Sporting clays. My Mec9000 just sits, I have a cabinet full of wads, buckets of hulls. And 3000 #209's, and over 8# of Red Dot. Been trying to trade some of the #209's for small pistol primers
I'm hoarding my Red Dot for pistol cartridges, so if my Unique gets used up at least I'll have powder.
Of course I'm short on SP primers, so there's that.

 

[Capt. F.]

I bought WW748 in 8# cans for 59.99 and primers at 6.99 a thousand and Winchester 55gr FMJ/BT at 8.99 a thousand in 1984 I stocked up, but I have had to pay higher prices since Then!

Have you seen what restaurants are charging for a glass of tea now? It is the times! And they are a changing!

Ivan

I believe one of our recent Presidents made that statement, "Change is coming". And it has and obviously not for the better.

 

[Frailer]

I'm outside of Atlanta, kinda sub-suburban and don't know how most of the LGS have survived this long.

Sadly, one of my favorite shops—one I drove past every day during my commute—didn't survive. They struggled to maintain reasonable prices *and* inventory. Apparently in this market you can't do both. I bought odds-and-ends from them, and I even sold them a couple of guns so they could have *something* in their display cases, but they could only tread water for so long.

I'm sure there are some businesses who "gouge," but from where I sit all the blame belongs with panic buyers. Somebody tells them they should be afraid…and they meekly comply.

 

[GypsmJim]

A while back I read a thread in this forum that indicated that the powder manufacturer's sometimes sold retail on their web site. I wanted a particular Hodgdon powder so I bookmarked their site and started checking it every morning when i did my e-mail.

outastock
outastock
outastock
BINGO

After about 3 weeks of trying it was IN-STOCK and at regular pricing. I quickly placed the order and a nicely wrapped package arrived several days later. I cringed at paying the hazmat fee, but since this it amortized well over the quantity I bought, and since this completes my lifetime supply of powder I just bit the bullet.

My current daily ritual is opening up the CCI web site primer page. So far no luck...

 

[Krogen]

Personally, I'm not angry with anyone. I simply cast my vote by not buying anything that is marked-up like primers, ammo etc etc. No biggie, just DON'T BUY.

Today a friend came by to pick up some .22LR ammo for a lady who lives alone in an isolated area with no protection except an old AR-7. Her local LGS wanted $25 for a box of (50) .22LR ammo.... We gave her what she will need to feel somewhat safe out there.... FREE obvioulsy. Now that LGS pisses me off.

J.

This pretty much sums it up for me. For the most part, I subscribe to the idea of free market. Let supply and demand define pricing and availability. But for necessities, it gets into the gouging territory. For example, bottled water during Katrina. I have a big problem with profiteers hiking up prices for life necessities. Ammo for personal protection falls into the necessity category. Handloading components are borderline. A 1/2 pound of powder, 100 primers and 100 bullets would cover most of our protection needs. Beyond that, we're in the "enjoyable pastime" area; not necessities. Yes, I do spend a lot of time in the enjoyable pastime of handloading. But, I also vote with my feet having seen this scenario before. And should any acquaintance need self protection ammo or components, I'll happily share what I have.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Blue Dot powder is in a class of it's own and if you want maximum fps in certain weapon............
you just need it, no matter what the cost.

I have one pound left and it is only used in my 38 special and 12 Ga. full loads, if needed.

If you can find any BE-86 powder, it will come close in the hand gun loads but I don't know if it will work for shotgun loads.

Ironworker, huh...........

I was in local 118 sub-office for 33 years and have no missing parts.
Stay safe.

 

[smoothshooter]

How does it end? I've read gouging threads, hoarding threads, I'm out and you have too much threads. When does it end? I've got plenty of components but do feel kind of bad opening another brick of primers knowing that it may not be replaced.
It's all nuts and upside down. I long for the days of normal, or at least my normal. I thought maybe 2021 would be close, maybe 2022…
David

2025, maybe. Probably never.
The New Normal will have no resemblance to what has been before.

 

[smoothshooter]

This pretty much sums it up for me. For the most part, I subscribe to the idea of free market. Let supply and demand define pricing and availability. But for necessities, it gets into the gouging territory. For example, bottled water during Katrina. I have a big problem with profiteers hiking up prices for life necessities. Ammo for personal protection falls into the necessity category. Handloading components are borderline. A 1/2 pound of powder, 100 primers and 100 bullets would cover most of our protection needs. Beyond that, we're in the "enjoyable pastime" area; not necessities. Yes, I do spend a lot of time in the enjoyable pastime of handloading. But, I also vote with my feet having seen this scenario before. And should any acquaintance need self protection ammo or components, I'll happily share what I have.

Which is better-bottled water at outrageous prices, or no water at all?
Some people act like they would prefer the second option.
I am not directing this at you, Krogen.

 

[smoothshooter]

Free market not price gouging.

Us Prophets were stocking up when Powder Valley did free shipping, when gun shows sold bricks of primers cheap, when Target Sports USA had free shipping on cases of 22LR. Now we're sitting on piles of this stuff, going to the range every week like there's no panic out there.

The people that got caught flat-footed by the ammo crisis remind me of people that live in a hurricane zone without a minimum of two week's worth of water and other essentials.
Who's fault is that?

 

[luvsmiths]

Which is better-bottled water at outrageous prices, or no water at all?
Some people act like they would prefer the second option.
I am not directing this at you, Krogen.

I think his point was just that without water, we will die, and to jack up that price on some poor old lady, or a family with kids, for profit, stinks.

No one will die if they don't buy 1000 rounds of 45 at 800.00.

I agree with him on life serving necessities being jacked way up. People can suffer badly.

 

[GypsmJim]

The people that got caught flat-footed by the ammo crisis remind me of people that live in a hurricane zone without a minimum of two week's worth of water and other essentials.
Who's fault is that?

I agree in principal, but then again not everyone has the resources that we all do on this forum.

There is a house down the road from our camp. Talk about dirt poor. The young boy that lives there with his mother told me that he only got 2 deer slugs a year, so he better do it right. His Mom rationed them out because that's all she could afford. They DID have the 2-week supply of essentials, and that's why there was no money left.

 

[Narragansett]

The last two stops at G&R Tavern (A year ago Labor Day and MLK Day this year,) the wife and I thought the prices were still "Normal", same goes for the 8 inch tall cream pies!

I try to keep a reserve of 10K of W209 primers. Someone was miffed that I was concerned when down to 4K! The just don't under stand that a 1000 shot shell, is just a fun weekend for one person! I'm sitting on 11K right now and loading season is upon me. I need to load about 4K in 28 gauge and 3K of 410

Ivan

You must be a skeet shooter. I have shot a few rounds with my trap gun. 40 points of choke smokes em good.

I used to keep 2 33 gallon trash cans full or reloads all the time

 

[smoothshooter]

I think his point was just that without water, we will die, and to jack up that price on some poor old lady, or a family with kids, for profit, stinks.

No one will die if they don't buy 1000 rounds of 45 at 800.00.

I agree with him on life serving necessities being jacked way up. People can suffer badly.

Because they did not plan ahead.

 

[luvsmiths]

Because they did not plan ahead.

I see your point now. You're right. Let them die.

 

[smoothshooter]

I think his point was just that without water, we will die, and to jack up that price on some poor old lady, or a family with kids, for profit, stinks.

No one will die if they don't buy 1000 rounds of 45 at 800.00.

I agree with him on life serving necessities being jacked way up. People can suffer badly.

No one dies of thirst in the US unless they are stranded in the desert or some other remote place.
Anyone that has a family should be responsible enough to plan for such emergencies. It is their duty, and costs almost nothing as regards to water.

 

[Rogeronimo]

I needed Blue dot badly,nobody has any ,accept a store that's well known for price gouging. I paid $59 bucks for a 1lb today. But ya figure if Powder valley had some(They don't) I'd have to pay Hazmat and shipping plus wait a week. I had to do what I had to do.

If you see some on the shelf, 800-X (discontinued) and 3N38 just might get you by.

 

[wyo-man]

Two months ago drove 35 miles one way to a "local" store to check on powder.
$90.00/lb for Varget. $60.00/lb for IMR 4064.
I didn't buy any and won't go back to that store.

wyo-man