Pricing a 25-2 and and an ancillary question

[Mstorm]

Looking for a pinned 25-2 (so 45ACP) without box in at least 95% condition--what do you guys think I should deem a good price on one of these (6 1/2 barrel)??
And the ancillary question: Am I right in assuming that the Model 25 is the closest thing Smith made in the 70's and 80's to the historic Model 1917. Or are they so terribly different that the only thing they have in common is both being revolvers???? I know of course that the sights are different but are the frames fairly close? I also know the trigger pulls are dramatically different. Just trying to gauge the accuracy of saying: "the model 25-2 is the modern day version of the Model 1917

 

[mchom]

Price probably $800 to $1000. Im guessing depending on where your located. Maybe you can do better. I paid 1200 so too much but it was in box and in excellent condition
The 25-2 while an N frame has a heavier profile barrel. It feels and handles different to me at least.

 

[Nightowl]

Same frame size, same cylinder size, same caliber! That's about all. The action parts are different, barrel is different profile, and it has adjustable sights. Stocks are target, not the skimpy service wood.

They had a 6 1/2 inch barrel until about 1978 when Smith standardized on 6 inch barrels on all N frames.

 

[jarhead1991]

From what I remember - I think - the S&W 22-4 Heritage Model that was made ~2004 is the most recent iteration by S&W of the 1917… I recently picked one up that was color case-hardened frame by Doug Turnbull for the special run by S&W at the time. The charcoal case-hardening isn’t exactly true to the original 1917, but it sure looks great. Out of necessity I am seriously thinking about having it converted to a round-butt (have recent hand damage in that area)…

 

[6string]

The 1917 and the 25-2 are totally different in feel and shooting characteristics. The heavy barrel and rib in the 25-2 gives it a heavy forward balance, intended for deliberate aimed fire. The 1917 is fast and "whippy" by comparison. The 1917 uses the old "long action" (please use the search function for more info) while the 25-2 uses the post-war "short action". Very different feel and shooting characteristics.
The 25-2 has nice modern target sights. The 1917 has basic fixed battle sights.
The model 1950 .45 cal Target was the "five screw" post-war revolver that was closest to a factory 1917 with target sights. They've got the light/thin barrel profile of a 1917. They are very often great shooters!

One caveat: if you plan to get a 25-2 for serious, accuracy-minded shooting, the 25-2 can be a real nightmare. The barrels run tight (0.451-.542") with fairly shallow rifling, while cylinder throats run as big as 0.458". At 50 yds, groups in excess of a foot (yes, over 12"!), with bullet keyholing, are not to be unexpected.

jarhead1991 nails it: the Heritage edition, aka model 22, is the modern version of the 1917. They figured out all the rifling, bore, and cylinder bugs and built a real fine shooter. You can probably find one for the price of a nice condition 25-2.

 

[Mstorm]

You guys are truly the best! Mountains of information in concise formats--love this forum. So some pivot points I took away: They are very different beasts and actually the model 1950 .45 cal target might be a closer "match" to the 1917---correct me here is I'm wrong did that 1950 morph into the Model 22 in 45 ACP. I keep asking about the 45 ACP because at least they would share the same cartridge used in the venerable WW 1917s---I'm actually also chasing an actual 1917 but fear that budget constraints will net me just a "marginal" quality example that I'd likely be unconfident in shooting. Hence, my interest in a "modern" version that was as close a cousin to the 1917. Again, it sounds like the model 1950 might be far closer with the Model 22 even farther away and the 25-2 as truly far away from the "original".
This all was triggered by watching the movie FURY and me thinking: "I've got a pile of K frames, and even a 27 and an L but that revolver on the screen looks very interesting (turns out it was a 1917)---This truly is an addiction, but a great one.

 

[StrawHat]

Some images for you to consider.

The S&W Model 1917,

The Model 1917 was built for the U S Army to satisfy the need for handguns chambered in 45 ACP. After the war, the Model was offered in a commercial version with slightly better sights. The Commercial Model 1917
used a squared notch for a rear sight instead of the divot used in the Government Model. The top of the frame on the Commercial version was flat instead of rounded as on the earlier version.

Left to right, Model 1917 Government, 1917 Commercial, Model 22-4.

There were some Target conversions done to these revolvers but only a very few done by the factory.

In 1950, S&W introduced two short action 45 ACP revolvers, the Model 1950 Army and the Model 1950 Target.

The Model 1950 Army,

This Model can be seen as an updated version of the Model 1917. It utilized the same squared notch for the rear sight but included a wider front sight. (The front sight in my image has been modified by the previous owner for better visibility.)

The Model 1950 Target was the first factory Target revolver in 45 ACP offered as a standard Model. This Model included an adjustable rear sight, a rib on the barrel and a ramped front sight.

Five years later, a heavier barreled version, The Model 1955 45 ACP Target revolver was introduced.

And that was the way it stood until the introduction of the Model 22-4. The Model 22-4 was introduced in two major variations, a 4” barrel with the reinforced ejector shroud,

And a 5 1/2” barrel, an update of the Model 1950 Army,

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

…Just trying to gauge the accuracy of saying: "the model 25-2 is the modern day version of the Model 1917

I had to go back and read your post to remember what you had asked.

My answer would be, no. The modern version of the Model 1917 would be the updated Model 1950 Army, currently callled the Model 22-4.

Not saying the Model 25-2 is not a great piece. I have a couple and looking for two more.

Kevin

 

[jarhead1991]

22-4

By comparison, here is my S&W 22-4 that was part of the Doug Turnbull limited run with his charcoal case-hardening... the barrel is rollmarked "Model of 1950", but it was a ~2004 run (please forgive my photo sizing, I am trying to learn the correct settings)...

 

[minconrevo]

A 25-2 will shoot awful (big groups @50 yds) with .452 lead bullets. It will shoot much better with .454 lead bullets.

 

[jarhead1991]

Minconrevo – you are absolutely correct; however, in my defense the .452 vs .454 diameter is the least of my concern here (and please forgive my Marine issue sense of humor)…

More than a few years ago – I earnestly attempted to “embrace” the .45 GAP round (Stupid #1), subsequently I plowed out 3k .45 GAP reload rounds (Stupid #2), and since the GAP was new at the time I endeavored to make very light match rounds using a not entirely proven recipe (Stupid #3).

These reloads proved too light to cycle the Glock (blasphemy to mention) slide, which is why you try out your light reloads BEFORE cranking out 3k rounds (Stupid… #4)…

So I sought out a .45 ACP S&W revolver that my twin 15-year-olds could shoot ad nauseum to consume the .45 GAP reloads… .45 GAP (at least these) light loads shoot great out of the 22-4 for “going bang”. But – as you noted – when you combine the .452 plated bullets and the increased headspace jump from the GAP round… “accuracy” (as you mentioned) is unpredictable at best.

Now – in penance for my level of stupidity described above… I think I am obliged to become at least a Silver contributing forum member and will be forwarding payment promptly to admin.

 

[Muley Gil]

"The top of the frame on the Commercial version was flat instead of rounded as on the earlier version."

The commercial versions didn't get the flat top frame until the late '20-early '30s. My 1917, #180692, shipped in January 1936 and it still has the dimple rear sight. Many of the '17s in the 180xxx range shipped in the early '30s. Mine must have been waaay back in the vault.

 

[erikpolcrack]

I have a nice shooter-grade 1937 Brazilian version of the M1917 that has a rear sight that looks pretty close to the civilian version pictured above. Way back when the Brazilians were way cheaper than the original M1917s.

 

[Muley Gil]

I have a nice shooter-grade 1937 Brazilian version of the M1917 that has a rear sight that looks pretty close to the civilian version pictured above. Way back when the Brazilians were way cheaper than the original M1917s.

The Brazilian 1917s built for the 1st contract were built on newly made 1937 commercial frames that did indeed have the flat top frames with the square notch rear sight. The 2nd Brazilian contract used mostly WW I era 1917 frames.

 

[StrawHat]

"The top of the frame on the Commercial version was flat instead of rounded as on the earlier version."

The commercial versions didn't get the flat top frame until the late '20-early '30s. My 1917, #180692, shipped in January 1936 and it still has the dimple rear sight. Many of the '17s in the 180xxx range shipped in the early '30s. Mine must have been waaay back in the vault.

Gil,

Does your frame have any Army acceptance marks?

Kevin

 

[Muley Gil]

Gil,

Does your frame have any Army acceptance marks?

Kevin

I bought a stripped, barreled frame in the white. There is no mark on the frame; it was probably polished off.

However, the underside of the barrel does have the eagle stamp, so it IS a WW I era 1917.