Primer info in manuals?

[Lodogg2221]

Hi all.

Id rather ask a dumb question than have a major problem, so here goes.

I keep seeing people mention primer type along with powder with regard to loads in manuals.
The manuals I have dont mention primer type.
Am I just missing it somewhere?

Ive got hard copies of the Lee Modern Reloading book and Hornadys 9th. Also have a few of the paperback load books for specific calibers. I dont see anything listed but powder, OAL, charge weight for min and max, etc.

I initially thought it was odd, since all my shotshell reloading over the years always listed primers by manufacture/number, yet these didnt. Then I figured maybe it was because they are sized differently, but I dont think its that simple.

So, where is everyone finding the primer info? Do I not have the right books?


BTW, Im a metallic reloading noob, and as yet have just been collecting what I need to get started. Still need to finish the new bench so I have room for both the MEC and the Lee and all associated stuff.

Powders so far are BLC2 for .223 and Titegroup for most handgun calibers. .38 .357 .40 .45 .44
I plan on getting H110 or similar for true magnum loads eventually....but nowhere near there yet.
And I may use some Clays in there too....since Ive got so much for shotgun, but not till I get all this figured out.

 

[LoadEmUp]

In the Hornady 9th edition the primer information is listed on the same page as the cartridge description - this is also where the info on the test handgun is provided, as well as the Max C.O.L, Max Case Length, and Case Trim Length. For example, page 783 lists Winchester WSP as the primer used for the 38 Special load data that follows.

 

[rsrocket1]

With metallic reloading all primers within the same family perform so close that it doesn't really matter. For instance all small pistol primers can be used in all cases that call for small pistol primers.

There are tsubtle differences, for instance Federal primers are typically slightly softer than the average primer and CCI primers are slightly harder. That only makes a difference if your hammer/striker is marginally effective.

Shotshell primers vary significantly in brisance and can make a difference of 2 kpsi which could be the difference between a good load and a blooper or a good load and one that goes over pressure specs for the shotgun when the margin for ideal loads is typically 9,000 to 11,000 psi. You probably already know the difference between a "cool" Remington 209P primer and a "hot" Fed 209A primer and know they should not be swapped.

FYI I love Clays, but only for low recoil/low velocity loads. Don't try to load up to standard velocities with the stuff because it builds up pressure too quickly before the bullet gets moving to a decent velocity. Unique or Hodgdon's Universal Clays is a better all-around handgun powder which will work well with all those calibers. Titegroup is good, but it is so dense, it is easy to double charge and not see it especially in the cavernous 38/357 case.

 

[Aussie Collector]

From memory Hornadys list the pistol primer type used at the front section.
I can only list primers I have used, from experience;
Small pistol primers -
Federal primers are softer and are good for tuned guns. Can be not so good for magnum loads.
Winchester simular the Federal (in flash) but require harder hammer fall. Better for magnum loads
CCI harder than Federal and Winchester and an increased flash. Great for really heavy full magnum loads.
Small rifle primers can be good for major power factor in calibres like .38 super (semi autos).
The key is to know your gun and look at the primer and look at your wallet. No good paying for Federal if the cheaper primers will do the trick.
One of my target loads I used same case, same projectile, same powder and grains but use Winchester primers for my model 52 and Federal primers for my highly tuned revolvers. At the time it was near impossible to get federal primers so I saved them for the guns that needed them. Both loads gave the same result in the 52 at the crono and ransom rest.
When playing with loads you must always look at the primer as it tells a story.
Again from memory there is a good section in the Hornady book on primers and what to look for. Rather than go over it here you need read it and be clear on what to look for. I hope this helps?
Cheers.
p.s I typed this up and see others beat me to the post but I have posted it anyway.

 

[retired_diver]

I will only add that the Speer manuals lists the primer in the upper left hand corner of the first page of each caliber. They use * in the loads ie *11.7gr blue dot etc that they use magnum primers. I believe that Mag primers have slightly thicker metal to help contain the Max pressures of Mag loads.

 

[SMSgt]

If a load calls for small pistol primers, I use small pistol primers regardless of brand. Likewise for all the other loads I do. It makes such little difference overall. I don't really care if Brand A gives me 30 fps more velocity than Brand B. It's irrelevant unless you're a match shooter trying to keep groups under 1/4 inch.

If you think you're gonna duplicate the exact data listed in some load manual by using the same components, fat chance. You'll get close if you're lucky. Even the test labs have a hard time duplicating the exact numbers, even under tightly controlled conditions, which you aren't going to have at the local range.

 

[Rule3]

The above posts cover the primers location in the manual. I always though Lee had a asterisk or something for Magnum but it appears they do not which is not good especially with H110/Win 296 and the like.

For magnum powders when you can find some, try Alliant 2400. It is more forgiving than H110 and does not require a Mag primer. It can be downloaded more than H110.

You will also find in Hodgdons online data that if it says Magnum, they tested with a Mag primer even though most of the powders do not really require it. They did so for consistency.

Even though I am a Lee user, their manual is not one of the better ones, Lyman and Lyman Cast and Speer manuals should be on your list.

 

[Lodogg2221]

Aha. Found it in the Hornady manual.

Guess I was more interested in the actual data than reading about the history of the cartridge, but had I read it, I would have seen the info I wanted at the top of the page.
I warned you guys it was a dumb question! LOL!

Anyway, I was going to order the Lyman guide too, should I be looking to add any other manuals right now besides the Lee, Hornady and Lyman?
I do use Hodgdons online data too, but they dont seem to list the info with the load data either. I know they have a book too, more like a magazine, but Ive not seen one up close. Do they list primers in that book, or is it just a printed version of the web info?


EDIT: Rule3, you were posting as I was typing. Ill add those two books to my list, and look into 2400 instead of H110.
I want to be able to run full house magnum loads, but forgiving is a good thing with regard to powder and reloading.

 

[jsfricks]

In the Lee manual primer size is listed at the start of each bullet size, top of each of those pages.

 

[Rule3]

Aha. Found it in the Hornady manual.

Guess I was more interested in the actual data than reading about the history of the cartridge, but had I read it, I would have seen the info I wanted at the top of the page.
I warned you guys it was a dumb question! LOL!

Anyway, I was going to order the Lyman guide too, should I be looking to add any other manuals right now besides the Lee, Hornady and Lyman?
I do use Hodgdons online data too, but they dont seem to list the info with the load data either. I know they have a book too, more like a magazine, but Ive not seen one up close. Do they list primers in that book, or is it just a printed version of the web info?


EDIT: Rule3, you were posting as I was typing. Ill add those two books to my list, and look into 2400 instead of H110.
I want to be able to run full house magnum loads, but forgiving is a good thing with regard to powder and reloading.

I have lots of H110, but when it's gone I will not buy anymore. It is a great powder but I really have no use for the full house Mags anymore. 2400 and HS6 will do me just fine. About the only thing I use it in is the 30 Carbine and I do not shoot that much.

When you go to Hodgdon online, you have to click the print recipe to see the primer used. You do not actually have to print it. Just hit cancel and the printed format will be there.

The Lee Manual has the primer size by the picture but only says large or small whatever. it does not say Magnum when a magnum should be used, like H110

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Lodogg2221,
Using the exact primer and brand in a recipe when loading shotgun ammo is imperative. When loading rifle ammo it's much less important as long as you use the right size primer and with handgun ammo it's almost a none-issue. I can understand your concern coming from shotshell loading.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

More primer stuff....

Rule3 pretty much said all I was thinking, but I have a bit to add. The Lee manual is a nice copulation of data from other sources, but like noted, they only tell you primer size, small or large, not the primer type, like regular or magnum. If using such reference material, you need to know what type primer is needed for each type of powder you want to use. So, the more manuals & reference guides you have, the better for you to compare, define & compile what's best for your combo.

One other point, some guides (Hornady, for instance) list the primer/brand they used for that particular cartridge. For example, they may show they used a Winchester WLP, or WSPM, for all their different combinations for that cartridge. Not all the powders listed may really need a magnum primer, so why use one if you don't need to? (They cost more, give more pressure, & you may not have any on-hand or can find any.) Most manuals tell you when a magnum primer is needed for a particular combination & the rest use regular primers, as noted in the section's preface.

Lastly, be aware that Winchester, Remington & RWS, only make one type of large pistol primer, for all needs, either regular or magnum. You can draw your own conclusion on these. Mine is that they have to be a compromise, on one end of the power scale or the other, & I only use them for the magnum half of the scale.

 

[zeke]

Actually, primers can matter, sometimes significantly.

You should be choosing manuals that list the primer used.