I got these earlier this year.
Servicios Aventuras Small Pistol Primers – Liberal Tears Brand
I bought from here last year.
Primers - Capital Cartridge
Primers are about 10 cents each.....
- Thread starter rwsmith
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I got these earlier this year.
Servicios Aventuras Small Pistol Primers – Liberal Tears Brand
I bought from here last year.
Primers - Capital Cartridge
kbm6893
Member
You're honestly saying that 20 years of war, with Iraq and Afghanistan, plus the probably hundreds of millions of rounds used in training over that time, is less than we have donated for Ukraine? I guarantee the US government used more ammo in one year of the War on Terror, then we gave to Ukraine. I did a year of ROTC in college, and there were literally PALLETS of ammo for us to use.
Ask somebody who has served about drawn out battles. Our guys weren't counting their shots as they traded fire with the enemy. And I doubt most of them would refer to their deployments as a few skirmishes. As for casualties being the evidence you use, that's rediculous. Our troops are better trained, with better equipment, and better support to tilt the odds in their favor. Not to mention immediate medical evacuation to prevent them from being a casualty. I had a kid in my class who did 4 years in the Marines, then went to Ukraine as an independent contractor. He was killed within a week of getting over there. His body has never even been recovered. Poor, Ukrainian troops sure aren't getting covered by Apache gunships and being taken in and out of combat in Blackhawks.
As for why so few LRP's, I'd imagine they aren't being made in the quantity that small pistol and small rifle are being made.
I haven't seen one primer in the two shops I used to get them from, so it's not just LRP's, at least near me.
And yes, I believe there is a price gouging conspiracy going on. Can't blame COVID anymore, and the Ukraine excuse is bogus. When they do finally become available everywhere, the price will be nearly double what I used to be three years ago, and people will happily pay it.
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What ammo would we be producing for Ukraine that is using up all the Large Rifle Primers? We aren't making 7.62x39 in any quantity and they probably aren't using up any 7.62x51 in any significant quantity. FWIW primer prices started to finally drop below $.10 a piece about the time the war started.
Actually I didn't put it quite right. What I'm saying is the amount of ammo PER YEAR that was being used up in the Afghan war was lower than the amount used in the last 12 months in the Ukraine. The manufacturers don't manufacture and stock a 20 year supply, so what was used throughout the entire 20 year war is irrelevant. Shortages like this are a short-term supply issue, not a 20-year supply issue because production and consumption are on-going not one-time events.
If we were using ammo in Afghanistan at the rate they are using it in the Ukraine then both sides in Afghanistan were really poor shots compared to the Russians and Ukrainians. So far there have been early 30k Russian soldiers killed and over 10k Ukrainian soldiers - in just a year. Vs 2400 US soldiers killed and an uncertain number of Afghanistan insurgents killed - over a 20 year period. And those numbers don't include the wounded OR civilians. Those numbers would certainly seem to support the idea that the amount of ammo being shot per day/week/month/year is a LOT higher in Ukraine right now than it was in Afghanistan.
Of course the fact that the US Government was sitting on BILLIONS of rounds at the start of the Afghan war reduced the amount that had to be produced for the war effort and therefore what was left for sale on the civilian market. On the other hand the Ukrainian war started at the end of the 20 year Afghan war - when our stockpiles had already been depleted by 20 years of war. Most of what we have been sending is NEW ammo - not from our stockpiles - because we don't have the kind of stockpiles we had 20 years ago.
It is documented that the Ukrainian war is burning through ammo faster than the US AND NATO can produce it. That didn't happen in Afghanistan.
Ukraine is burning through ammunition faster than the US and NATO can produce it. Inside the Pentagon's plan to close the gap | CNN Politics
Firearm and Ammunition Industry Answering Ukraine’s Call to Arms • NSSF
America Is Running Out of Ammo - WSJ
Over Four Million Rounds Of Heavy Ammo Committed To Ukraine From U.S. So Far
US plans to buy 100,000 rounds of artillery ammo from South Korea for Ukraine | CNN Politics
BTW, those last two are about artillery ammo - and if we've sent them FOUR MILLION rounds of artillery already - and are sending another 100k rounds, how many rounds of small arms ammo do you think we've sent them? Certainly HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.
Extrapolating conditions at your local gun shop to "prove" a conspiracy that includes the whole industry - including overseas manufacturers - is silly. Primers are available online, and lots of people in this very thread have shared sources where they are starting to show up again. Even in the big box stores.
I don't get why so many people look for exotic conspiracy theories to explain everything. Occam's razor applies here.
Or to put it more simply, when you hear hoofbeats, look for horses - not zebras.
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Well, according to the link in my last post more than one major ammo manufacturer sent them a million rounds - APIECE.
Even if the US manufacturers aren't sending them loaded ammo, I'd bet they are sending the components to make the ammo to European manufacturers. Things like ammo components are a GLOBAL commodity.
And since when do US manufacturers NOT make 7.62x39 ammo? Last time I checked (5 minutes ago) Federal, Remington, Winchester, DoubleTap, Underwood, and Maxim all make that round - not to mention LAX, Capital Cartridge, and other smaller manufacturers. They may not have been making them in huge quantities before the Ukraine war, but that doesn't mean they aren't now.
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Any proof to back this up?
I'm sure they would be putting out regular press releases if they had continued to donate millions of rounds on a regular basis. One million rounds in May 2022 ago isn't going to have any impact on today.
Without any shred of proof it's all just fantasy conspiracy theory.
Nice cherry pickin'!
I didn't say they ARE making more - I said that doesn't mean they aren't producing more now.
I also didn't say they are continuing to give ammo away. That was just the start of the ammo heading to Ukraine. Just curious, but do you think they did that out of the goodness of their hearts? Or did they do it in anticipation of selling a LOT more ammo after that to support the war? I can tell you which makes more sense to me. The impact of the initial shipments of a few million rounds is long past, but the on-going sales and shipments to the war zone are what is causing the on-going issue.
BTW, I'm not the one suggesting collusion and conspiracy by a global industry to limit access to ONE type of primer to screw the American consumer.
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kbm6893
Member
You've put a few links in about how much we are giving Ukraine, but none showing how many we use for ourselves. Between training and service use, it is literally several hundreds of millions a year, and since most shots fired in combat are suppressive fire, they sure ain't counting shots. When somebody else is paying the bill, you don't worry about it.
I'm not a big conspiracy guy, but the primer situation does NOT add up. Even if things are more expensive, which I can understand, I do not see primers ANYWHERE near me. They're not on the shelves to be marked up. Big outlets and website get them. First, it was Covid's fault. Then it was supply chain issues, then it was whatever they have is going to factory loaded ammo. Now, Covid is over, supply chain issues are over, and factory ammo is everywhere.
Lake City Arsenal produces about 1.5 BILLION rounds of ammo every year for the military, and those numbers were higher at the peak of Iraq and Afghanistan. And we're not using ammo at this rate in Afghanistan now because we are not longer IN Afghanistan. At the height of the war, in the early 2000's, we were burning through it at a far higher rate then we are now. And back then, I was getting cases of .223 shipped to my door for about $200.
But here's a little article for you. Dated in 2005. US was getting ammo from Israel. We were using 250,000 rounds to kill ONE rebel. 6 BILLION expended between 2002 and 2005. That's 2 BILLION a year. just from the military. And I had not one problem getting ammo of any type back then, and reloaders didn't sit through droughts going on for YEARS, either.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...se-250-000-for-every-rebel-killed-314944.html
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Nice cherry pickin'!.
Cherry pickin? I addressed the one article I saw that had anything to do with larger rifle primers. A bunch of articles about 25mm ammo, tank rounds, artillery, and mortars doesn’t help your point. The fact they don’t mention small arms ammo kind of hurts your point.
Unsure if large rifle primers are still in stock, but Grafs has free ship spend $75 and free hazmat with $150 of primers/powder.
Ordered yesterday with that deal and I think it's running the balance of this month.
They had a good selection when I was online there yesterday.
Ordered yesterday with that deal and I think it's running the balance of this month.
They had a good selection when I was online there yesterday.
Paul in Nevada
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I commonly see SPP for $70/k, SRP for $80/k, LRP for $100/k. What kills me is the LPM's and LRM's. I never see LRM's and the LPM's are all "Gold Medal Match" or sumsutch for $150/k. I have a 458 SOCOM project I keep putting off because I want a pile of LPM's before I commit to the final parts.
As for SPM's, they are rare and expensive as well but I long ago switched to CCI 400's for SP magnums.
As for SPM's, they are rare and expensive as well but I long ago switched to CCI 400's for SP magnums.
GypsmJim
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The "war" isn't the problem. If it were, SRP would be the issue. They use rifles more than handguns.
The "problem" started with covid. Millions of guns got sold and there was a panic. Also known as hoarding.
If inflation were the issue, my 2020 $28 primers would now cost $34.
It's simply supply vs. demand, and supply vs. production capacity.
Add to that price gouging and that's where we are today.
If I simply have to drive over to Sportsman's warehouse twice a week, I'll be fine.
(until everyone else finds out)
The "problem" started with covid. Millions of guns got sold and there was a panic. Also known as hoarding.
If inflation were the issue, my 2020 $28 primers would now cost $34.
It's simply supply vs. demand, and supply vs. production capacity.
Add to that price gouging and that's where we are today.
If I simply have to drive over to Sportsman's warehouse twice a week, I'll be fine.
(until everyone else finds out)
cmj8591
Member
I'm not sure why you're not seeing primers where you are. Just about every LGS near me has them almost all of the time. Large rifle get a bit scarce once in a while but even those are regularly available now. A quick check on line shows Target Sports and Midway both shipping right now. You might want to change where you're shopping.
I think there's no bad time to stock up. If you need them, buy them. Waiting until they get to what you think is rock bottom is a fool's errand.
Let's see, large rifle primers are in short supply and priced sky high. Why would that be? Well, let’s think about this a minite.
One theory is that there is a war on. A war where both sides primary infantry rifle is chambered in 7.62x39 and they are burning through tens of MILLIONS of rounds. In fact, they are burning through ammo faster than the US and NATO combined can make it. The 7.62x39 round takes a large rifle primer, which has always been the size that US retailers stocked and sold the least – because they are mostly used in hunting rounds, not target ammo. Coincidentally, large rifle primers are the ONLY ones that are almost unobtainable and are still selling for 30%-50% higher than ALL the other sizes.
The other theory is that ALL the manufacturers have put their heads together (somehow) and conspired NOT to make enough large rifle primers to satisfy the US retail market. They are creating an artificial shortage, just so they can jack the price up on this ONE component – the one with the lowest demand. All so they can screw Grandpa out of his money for the components he needs to load rounds for his deer rifle
Which of these theories makes ANY sense? The answer is obvious.
IT’S A CONSPIRACY! LOL
One theory is that there is a war on. A war where both sides primary infantry rifle is chambered in 7.62x39 and they are burning through tens of MILLIONS of rounds. In fact, they are burning through ammo faster than the US and NATO combined can make it. The 7.62x39 round takes a large rifle primer, which has always been the size that US retailers stocked and sold the least – because they are mostly used in hunting rounds, not target ammo. Coincidentally, large rifle primers are the ONLY ones that are almost unobtainable and are still selling for 30%-50% higher than ALL the other sizes.
The other theory is that ALL the manufacturers have put their heads together (somehow) and conspired NOT to make enough large rifle primers to satisfy the US retail market. They are creating an artificial shortage, just so they can jack the price up on this ONE component – the one with the lowest demand. All so they can screw Grandpa out of his money for the components he needs to load rounds for his deer rifle
Which of these theories makes ANY sense? The answer is obvious.
IT’S A CONSPIRACY! LOL
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Yeah, I'm sure they're burning through millions of artillery rounds, but they aren't using any where NEAR that much 7.62x39 ammo in their AKs. I mean it isn't like they have tens of thousands of troops on the ground shooting at each other and armed with AKs or anything.
All sarcasm aside, I wasn't having much luck finding figures on small arms ammo, but in a ground war there is a whole lot more small arms ammo fired than there are artillery rounds. Machine guns can shoot as much as hundreds of rounds per second. Tanks, mortars and artillery pieces don't.
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kbm6893
Member
I’d happily change where I shop but there’s no Bass, Cabela’s, or Sportmans Warehouse near me. I’d happily take an hour drive once a month but there’s no telling if they have any primers until I get here and if they’re out I wasted a long drive.
kbm6893
Member
Then either production is down or demand is up and they can’t keep up. This has been going in for three years now. I understand not ramping up temporarily but it’s been three years and it isn’t temporary. And there are only 4 primer manufactures in this country, and I believe those 4 or only owned by two companies. They are the only suppliers for military, law enforcement, and civilian sales.Let's see, large rifle primers are in short supply and priced sky high. Why would that be? Well, let’s think about this a minite.
One theory is that there is a war on. A war where both sides primary infantry rifle is chambered in 7.62x39 and they are burning through tens of MILLIONS of rounds. In fact, they are burning through ammo faster than the US and NATO combined can make it. The 7.62x39 round takes a large rifle primer, which has always been the size that US retailers stocked and sold the least – because they are mostly used in hunting rounds, not target ammo. Coincidentally, large rifle primers are the ONLY ones that are almost unobtainable and are still selling for 30%-50% higher than ALL the other sizes.
The other theory is that ALL the manufacturers have put their heads together (somehow) and conspired NOT to make enough large rifle primers to satisfy the US retail market. They are creating an artificial shortage, just so they can jack the price up on this ONE component – the one with the lowest demand. All so they can screw Grandpa out of his money for the components he needs to load rounds for his deer rifle
Which of these theories makes ANY sense? The answer is obvious.
IT’S A CONSPIRACY! LOL
I started reloading after Newtown, in spring of 2013. Components were scarce for a few months but I got them. Now, they’re hard to find and triple the price. I’ve spoken to life long reloaders and they’ve never seen anything like it and it isn't Ukraine’s fault.
Being retired and on a fixed income,
I could live with $5 a 100, if that is what they had on the counter.
More than that and I am going fishing.
Limited out in kokanee salmon in 99 minutes with my partner, today.
I could live with $5 a 100, if that is what they had on the counter.
More than that and I am going fishing.
Limited out in kokanee salmon in 99 minutes with my partner, today.
Beemer-mark
Member
I haven't seen much at Sportsman’s Warehouse for the last few years. Just bought SPP from Normashooting.com made in Argentina for $64/1000 delivered. I stopped at Sportsman’s Warehouse today and they had both Federal and Remington SPP for $57/1000. Figures. Considering primers (before promotions and sales) were $40/1000 locally before the pandemic, the inflation run up (esp. in metals) $57 sound like a good price. They also had lots of powders but it seems powder prices are all over the map - even from the same manufacturer.
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