Progressive press question

[smokindog]

If the available PTX inserts don't work, I ran across this awhile back but have no personal experience.

Powderfunnels.com -- Fully Featured Powder Through Exapnder
Universal Powder Through Expander (PTX)

A relative of mine, who I helped get set up to reload a couple years ago, contacted me recently as he wanted to get a progressive, and was considering a Dillon 550 like mine. He wants to only load 9mm and 45acp on the press as he shoots those calibers the most. So gave him a list of the options. A new Dillon 550 was going to cost around $610 shipped set up for one caliber and adding the other caliber conversion and a quick change kit (tool head, powder measure). Since he already has a RCBS Uniflow, I advised he could just add the case activated linkage kit to his powder measure, and have it set up for one caliber. Where he mentioned he liked the auto-indexing feature, I mentioned the Square Deal B press, but he wasn't sure about adding new calibers in the future--perhaps .223 for his AR, which ruled out the Square Deal.

Granted it isn't entirely a fair comparison, since he already had a powder measure. With the Hornady LNL AP being on sale at MidSouth Shooter Supply for $389.99, adding 2 shellplates, extra case activation kit, lower assembly, PTX expanders, 2 LNL Bushings--the total came to $595 shipped. He said he wasn't interested in adding a case feeder or bullet feeder, as I mentioned it was cheaper to add a case feeder to the Dillon 650, but the cost of the 650 would be higher as it being set up for 1 caliber was going to be about $585 shipped (only $10 less than the Hornady with 2 calibers).

So with the added promotion of the 500 "free" bullets, he went witht he Hornady LNL AP. I'll be very interested to see the press set up and in action. My only concern with the press is that he casts his own bullets, and I suspect the PTX expanders will have issues on lead sized larger than it's FMJ/Plated counterparts--which might mean that he will have to use his expander dies. The ability to have a visual powder check die is a nice option to have as well with the added station over the 550.

I still am very pleased with my 550, and have cranked out thousands of rounds on it. I haven't had any problems with the powder funnels expanding my brass enough to accept my cast bullets. Hopefully he will be equally as pleased with the LNL AP.

 

[Ballistic147]

When I bought my LNL I went with the Hornady dies and an extra powder metering insert for each die set. Those are only $10 each. I don't use the PTX set up either. I keep the appropriate powder metering insert in the box with the die set and found they hold their setting really well. Only takes a couple minutes to reset the case activated powder drop for a different size cartridge so I saw no need to spend the extra money on case activation kits. The way I have mine set up the powder drop is in the third station so I have two opportunities to check each case at stations 4 and 5 for the appropriate amount of powder. Thought about the powder cop die but felt that would be more of a distraction since you would have to look up to the tool head to check it.

So far the only real complaint I have with the LNL system is the detents on the shell plate. Each time the shell plate advances to the next detent it will toss a grain or two (I'm talking individual grains of powder) out of the case and on to the shell plate. Doesn't do it on 38 Specials but only on shorter cases. By the end of a hundred rounds you have to blow it off. Otherwise I'm very happy with it so far and really enjoying my new hobby.

 

[Twoboxer]

. . . So far the only real complaint I have with the LNL system is the detents on the shell plate. Each time the shell plate advances to the next detent it will toss a grain or two (I'm talking individual grains of powder) out of the case and on to the shell plate. Doesn't do it on 38 Specials but only on shorter cases. By the end of a hundred rounds you have to blow it off. Otherwise I'm very happy with it so far and really enjoying my new hobby.

This can be eliminated by tapping the ball bearings up into the shellplate so they do not protrude as far as when shipped from the factory. Once at the correct height for your press, the shellplate will nestle into the detents without SNAPPING.

A simple punch and tap hammer does the trick. If you tap too far, turn the plate over tap them back out, and try again.

You'll be amazed how smooth the press can run once you do this.

 

[epj]

Been using a Dillon 550 for years. Tens of thousands of rounds loaded. Had a few issues with worn out primer slides, but Dillon promptly sent me new ones. My only reason that I would rather have a 650 is the fifth station so I could use the powder check gizzmo. Haven't had a problem, but it would give me a warm fuzzy feeling to have one.

 

[smokindog]

Along with the solution TwoBoxer provided, there are other options like shims, ... I wasn't sure about the policy to link to other forums but google "powder jumping case hornady LNL"

You'll note in the results that this is can be a problem in all brands of presses

So far the only real complaint I have with the LNL system is the detents on the shell plate. Each time the shell plate advances to the next detent it will toss a grain or two (I'm talking individual grains of powder) out of the case and on to the shell plate. Doesn't do it on 38 Specials but only on shorter cases. By the end of a hundred rounds you have to blow it off. Otherwise I'm very happy with it so far and really enjoying my new hobby.

 

[ChiefStealth]

I have the Lee Turret Press. Works great.

 

[Ballistic147]

Twoboxer and smokindog, great info from you both. After doing the Google search I like the idea of the shim method. Looks like it would be really simple to do. We have a local bearing supply that should have the shims. I'll check with them next week and if not I'll order some. I'm thinking this would take some of the play in the shell plate out and probably and make my COAL a little more consistent.

 

[Twoboxer]

Twoboxer and smokindog, great info from you both. After doing the Google search I like the idea of the shim method. Looks like it would be really simple to do. We have a local bearing supply that should have the shims. I'll check with them next week and if not I'll order some. I'm thinking this would take some of the play in the shell plate out and probably and make my COAL a little more consistent.

Hats off to you if you think the shimming approach is simpler than tapping the bearings up lol. Every press has different (stacked) tolerances, so I can only speak for mine. Even though mine measured out not to need shimming, the ball bearings needed to be recessed a bit more to eliminate snapping.

I've seen 3 different COL problems, so I don't know which you are plagued by.

The first is bullet related and can be caused by misformed tips or just different shapes base to ogive. You can eliminate COL differences caused by the former via (ugh) meplat uniforming, or better yet choosing a seating depth based on base to ogive measurements, not COL. You can minimize the latter by methodically and painfully sorting bullets into groups with matching base to ogive measurements. ETA: If you do this once and find it eliminates or extremely minimizes the variation, you can then choose to always do it . . . or ignore COL variations

The second is getting a different COL when setting up your seating die than you get when the press is fully loaded. Minimize that by always having a case in the sizing die when setting seating depth.

The third is subplate wobble which can be corrected by shimming.

There may be others but hope that helps.

 

[THEWELSHM]

When I bought my LNL I went with the Hornady dies and an extra powder metering insert for each die set. Those are only $10 each. I don't use the PTX set up either. I keep the appropriate powder metering insert in the box with the die set and found they hold their setting really well. Only takes a couple minutes to reset the case activated powder drop for a different size cartridge so I saw no need to spend the extra money on case activation kits. The way I have mine set up the powder drop is in the third station so I have two opportunities to check each case at stations 4 and 5 for the appropriate amount of powder. Thought about the powder cop die but felt that would be more of a distraction since you would have to look up to the tool head to check it.

So far the only real complaint I have with the LNL system is the detents on the shell plate. Each time the shell plate advances to the next detent it will toss a grain or two (I'm talking individual grains of powder) out of the case and on to the shell plate. Doesn't do it on 38 Specials but only on shorter cases. By the end of a hundred rounds you have to blow it off. Otherwise I'm very happy with it so far and really enjoying my new hobby.

it sound like your pawls need slight adjustment to smooth out the station change.



watch highboy on youtube type in highboy pawl adjustment

thewelshm

 

[Ballistic147]

Hats off to you if you think the shimming approach is simpler than tapping the bearings up lol. Every press has different (stacked) tolerances, so I can only speak for mine. Even though mine measured out not to need shimming, the ball bearings needed to be recessed a bit more to eliminate snapping.

I guess in this case simple is a relative term. I fix air tools for a living. Anything from an impact wrench to some pretty complicated automated tools with tons of small parts. I also spent 10 years building race engines for dirt bikes. Pulling the sub plate off of a press and shimming things out just seems simple to me. Not saying I'm all that smart, just good at fixing mechanical stuff.

I've seen 3 different COL problems, so I don't know which you are plagued by.

Not necessarily a problem but I'm seeing +/- .007" on loaded rounds. Seems 380's are the worst. I'm thinking that taking some of the loose motion out of the shell plate would help this.

it sound like your pawls need slight adjustment to smooth out the station change.

I've played with pawl adjustment but it doesn't seem to help. The shell plate snaps into the detents pretty hard which is shaking the cases. As the shell plate locks in on the detent you can see the powder jump in the case and a couple grains just hop out. Even working the handle really slow it still does it. Could be completely wrong but I believe it's all in the detent.

 

[Srruger762]

Thanks everyone for your info and experience. I'm going with the Hornady Lock N Load Auto Progressive Precision Bullet Reloading Press. Again Thanks!

 

[Thomas15]

Thanks everyone for your info and experience. I'm going with the Hornady Lock N Load Auto Progressive Precision Bullet Reloading Press. Again Thanks!

You will enjoy your LnL, in spite of what the Dillon people say.

I have Dillon dies in my Hornady press. The reason I went with Dillon dies is because the Dillon set comes with separate seating and crimping dies. I use the PTX in station #2 and an RCBS lock out die in station #3. This leaves station #4 for bullet seating and station #5 for crimp. If you are using a combination seat and crimp die, you can unscrew the die about 3 turns and then adjust the bullet seater for the correct OAL. The you can buy a separate crimp die and put that in station #5.

Consider getting additional powder measure lowers for each caliber you load. Also, look at inline fabrications items for the LnL. I have and really like their Ultramount, the 2 bin bullet bracket and the improved finished bullet bin bracket. An LED light to see inside the case is nice to check powder and the lock out is another layer of protection against either a squib or double charge.

 

[2011redrider]

Thanks everyone for your info and experience. I'm going with the Hornady Lock N Load Auto Progressive Precision Bullet Reloading Press. Again Thanks!

seems Cabelas has it for 377 and 5.00 to ship or jet.Com has it for 379.00 after the 30.00 off and free ship.

 

[smokindog]

WOW! They also have the case feeder for $289, feed plates for about $28, and if you want to go full throttle, they have bullet feed dies for less than $22 and the feed tubes in 3 packs for about $25 (you can make these tubes out of PVC pipe if you're handy, it's on youtube).

I built my own light kit and primer warning system for about $15.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/137549512-post16.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137549531-post17.html

seems Cabelas has it for 377 and 5.00 to ship or jet.Com has it for 379.00 after the 30.00 off and free ship.

 

[growr]

Just got my Front Sight magazine from USPSA and interestingly enough Dillon is used in all catagories by over 90%. USPSA shooters go through a LOT of ammo. (Hornady is used by less than 10 %)

They don't break it out as to which model Dillon....I suspect for many it is at least a 650, more likely a 1050. I have used a 550 for many years and have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds with little problem.

When I did break or loose something a call to Dillon had the problem part being sent out that day, NO CHARGE EVER!

Yes, I am a Dillon enthusiast......

Randy

 

[Carrier]

Just got my Front Sight magazine from USPSA and interestingly enough Dillon is used in all catagories by over 90%. USPSA shooters go through a LOT of ammo. (Hornady is used by less than 10 %)

They don't break it out as to which model Dillon....I suspect for many it is at least a 650, more likely a 1050. I have used a 550 for many years and have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds with little problem.

When I did break or loose something a call to Dillon had the problem part being sent out that day, NO CHARGE EVER!

Yes, I am a Dillon enthusiast......

Randy

Not wanting to argue anything but I've heard that 90% thing for every shooting group in the world. I must only know the 10 percenters as more of them have Hornady, Lee and RCBS than they do Dillion.

 

[Steve_Revo_]

I bought a Hornady LnL AP in 2008 and figure I loaded well over 35K rounds through it in the following 6+ years. Not a bad press, Hornady customer service is first rate and with a little bit of constant tweaking you can make it run.

That said, last summer I picked up a Dillon 550B in a trade deal and had the chance to run both side by side for several months. Even though the 550B is a manual indexing press I find that I'm able to load more ammo due to the fact that I don't have to stop and make adjustments, clear malfunctions /etc. The Dillon was more precise and required far less (almost zero, really) tweaking than the Hornady. After several months I sold the Hornady and I am now running the 550B.

When I purchased my press Hornady had a promotion where i got 1000 Hornady bullets plus another 100 for each set of dies. This helped to offset the cost of the press and made it an attractive option (I was actually looking at a Lee at the time). I don't regret buying the Hornady press. I learned a great deal about reloading and setting up and running a progressive press. However, the constant tweaking and adjustments that the press required was just too much of a pain in my backside to deal with. The Dillon works. I don't have to mess with it... I just load.

YMMV but this is my story. Take it for what it's worth.

Good luck.

 

[alz44]

Hi. I've had my lnl press for about 5 years, it's great. I've had very few problems(mostly human error). I did recently have a small primer feeder break on me, and Hornady sent me the new part, FREE. Great customer support. Al

 

[fredj338]

Not wanting to argue anything but I've heard that 90% thing for every shooting group in the world. I must only know the 10 percenters as more of them have Hornady, Lee and RCBS than they do Dillion.

The reason is people competing at that level, if they are not sponsored, they work for a living. You buy gear that allows you produce high quality ammo in the least amount of time. Lee, uh no, RCBS, maybe, Hornady, some day when they get it 100% right (see post #37). They have been tweaking the LNL for years. I know a lot of people that have Lee stuff, but most if not all go to a Dillon at some point, because their time is valuable. Don't discount what 90% of the National & World class shooters do, it's how they got there. Yes am a Dillon enthusiast, but I am more a reloading enthusiast & use all the manuf gear at some level. I work full time, I don't have time to fuss & adjust a press to keep up with my weekend shooting needs.

 

[eth77]

LnL works for me

I reloaded many years ago - 1967-1969 timeframe. At that time I used an RCBS Jr. for 357 Mag, and a MEC for 12 ga.

Time passed and I started reloading again. This time it was because I could save money, not just have fun! Like some others, I purchased a LnL Classic, but then three years ago I got a LnL AP for Fathers Day. I've purchased the cartridge thru expander, and multiple precision elements for the powder throw. In particular, a pistol micrometer insert.

My experience is that priming needs to be set up carefully on the AP. In addition, one needs to use a good dry lube on the shell plate between it and the press as there is so much surface contact, that any drag will make correct indexing an iffy thing. Don't use grease! The Hornady One Shot lube works, as does dry moly. The two stage indexing is very nice.

Make sure you understand that the powder throw rises until it hits a stop. That is what makes the thru hole case flare work. The turnbuckle type adjuster should be adjusted carefully. Make sure the lock nuts are tightened more than finger tight (ask me how I know).

Add the nifty LED light to show the reloading area, such a deal !!!!

I also purchased an Inland Fab riser for the press which I absolutely love. It's mounted to a 24x18" piece of 3/4" ply, and I can have the press set up on the kitchen table in about 2 min.

I hit about 300 rnds per hour without killing myself. There are probably more tricks to get you to 400, but I'm happy at 300.