Punch for Apex install

[chele519]

From what I'm reading I need a 1/8" roll pin punch for swapping out the M&P trigger. I found this set locally, Craftsman is a pretty good brand, I think, I know they have a good warranty. I read some of the reviews for the sets on Amazon and Midway and some mentioned that they bent really easily and a Grace one on Midway had a review saying it didn't fit the M&P.

Can I use a regular hammer with this set or do I need to buy one of the small hammers that I see in the punch sets? And if anyone has any helpful tips for installing the trigger, please let me know. I've watched the video and will watch again before I do anything to make sure I know what I'm doing.

Sears.com

 

[Derosa]

I used a regular hammer when I installed my Apex. Just be careful. A little force goes a long way on small parts. Tips? Watch the video three times. Get a coffee. Watch it again. Have it running as you change parts.
Good luck.

 

[shooter48]

If you use a regular hammer the punch could bend with the blows. If you have a Harbor freight store near you they have a light hammer. May only be 6 or 7 dollars.

 

[Bkreutz]

The Craftsman set should be fine for what you're doing. I don't use roll pin punches on M&P pins because they're not roll pins, but spring pins and the hole in the middle of the pin is smaller than a roll pin. (roll pins are one layer of steel with a gap, spring pins are multiple overlapping layers). That's just personal preference on my part. There isn't much resistance to removing and installing them so either type of punch will work.

 

[Saudade]

I've used a 20 oz Ball Peen to drive the pins out when I changed the trigger bar and sear housing on my 9c. Just choke up on the handle, hold the punch in line with the pin and strike the punch straight on. Let the hammer weight drive the pin. Gentle strikes to start and work up to the point that the pin starts moving. You're not driving a railroad spike.

 

[chele519]

The Craftsman set should be fine for what you're doing. I don't use roll pin punches on M&P pins because they're not roll pins, but spring pins and the hole in the middle of the pin is smaller than a roll pin. (roll pins are one layer of steel with a gap, spring pins are multiple overlapping layers). That's just personal preference on my part. There isn't much resistance to removing and installing them so either type of punch will work.

I haven't picked them up yet, would something else work better? They have just pin punches, I thought I read in a thread that a roll pin punch was needed.

I just watched the video again and he seems to be using multiple size punches but no mention of what size.

 

[Bkreutz]

I haven't picked them up yet, would something else work better? They have just pin punches, I thought I read in a thread that a roll pin punch was needed.

I have both styles of punches (having worked on machines for most of my adult life). I just didn't like the fit of the roll pin punches on the spring pins. The idea behind the roll pin punch is that the raised center nub on the punch would fit into the hole in the pin and the outer edge of the punch would bear on the pin itself. I found that with the smaller hole in the spring pin, the "nub" was pushing on the inner part of the pin so it wasn't getting a straight push and wanted to flare out the pin. A pin punch of the proper size hits the pin square, just make sure that the punch is aligned with the pin when installing it. (another advantage of the roll pin punch when used on a roll pin is that the punch is self centering, on a spring pin, not so much).

 

[moose1953us]

a light hammer is easier to use and get it right, but any will do. just do a bunch of light taps and the pin will go in ok. if you hit it too hard, you could bend the pin or elongate the hole. it doesn't take a whole lot of force to put them in....

 

[rbuzz]

I don't mean these comments to be insulting, so please don't take offense. If you're not mechanically inclined you might consider spending a few extra dollars and taking your handgun to a gun shop or someone qualified to do the work instead of trying something that you aren't comfortable doing.
Even though the Apex trigger mod is fairly easy to do, if you're not comfortable with it, it would be better to have an expert do it. Firearms are expensive and complicated pieces of machinery and since your life may depend on it's dependable operation, spending a few extra dollars might be your best route. Considering that you have to go out and buy punches and a hammer or whatever else, the cost to have it done by an expert should be minimal.
So please don't take offense, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, spend a few dollars and have it done professionally. Your piece of mind knowing that it is done correctly and will operate dependably in a life or death situation if needed will be priceless.

 

[toasted]

Bkreutz is correct to a point

Spring pin is a catagory which includes coil spring pins (the type used by S&W) & slotted spring pins which most people call roll pins. Here is a link that shows the pin used very clearly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_pin

I do a lot of work on AR's as well as M&P Pistols so I have a large collection of punches. I admit to being a tool junkie and have been collecting a long time. I never throw a damaged tool away and often modify them to suit a specific need. I shortened bent punches to make "starter" punches before I found them for sale.
I use starter punches designed for spring pins:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...nches/roll-pin-starter-punches-prod20640.aspx

And then finish removing them with a proper sized pin punch.

When I reinstall the spring pins I use these:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...h-tools/punches/roll-pin-holders-prod781.aspx

They really make installing spring pins easy. Understand I work on other peoples guns and they take a dim view of scratches caused by slipping punches so I really can't afford not to have the right tools.

One tool that I rely on since I discovered it is a Nupla Handi-Hammer. It gives me better control than anything I have ever used. Here is a link to show it:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Nupla-89714-Handi-Hammer-Handleless-Non-Marring/dp/B00GVKD9VK/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1445813482&sr=1-1&keywords=nupla+handi-hammer"]Nupla 89714 Handi-Hammer Power Drive Heavy Duty Handleless Hammer with 1 Non-Marring Soft and Steel Face: Dead Blow Hammers: Amazon.com: Home Improvement@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/216o334pYnL.@@AMEPARAM@@216o334pYnL[/ame]

You will discover many things commonly miscalled in the gun world.... roll pins are actually spring pins and magazines are called clips. A Shield uses magazines, an M1 Garand uses clips. AR magazines can be loaded with stripper clips. A .357 Magnum and .38 Special both use the same diameter bullet.

Welcome to the gun culture. You are off to a good start by having found this site. Read all you can and decide which replies you want to follow.

My father taught me to things that I still hold true:

There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid mistakes caused because you didn't ask it.

Experiece is a difficult teacher, it gives the test before it gives the answer.

Read and ask away....if you get flamed by someone shrug it off and keep reading there are helpful & knowledgeable people here that enjoy helping. Most of us are eager to pass on the lessons we learned the hard way.

 

[gunfighter48]

The trouble with taking a gun to a gunsmith anymore is trying to find a "qualified" gunsmith. There are some real hacks calling themselves gunsmiths these days. Just read the forms for a while and you'll see some pretty sad so called "gunsmithing". If you can find a good one give him all the work you can afford to keep him in business!

 

[chele519]

I don't mean these comments to be insulting, so please don't take offense. If you're not mechanically inclined you might consider spending a few extra dollars and taking your handgun to a gun shop or someone qualified to do the work instead of trying something that you aren't comfortable doing.
Even though the Apex trigger mod is fairly easy to do, if you're not comfortable with it, it would be better to have an expert do it. Firearms are expensive and complicated pieces of machinery and since your life may depend on it's dependable operation, spending a few extra dollars might be your best route. Considering that you have to go out and buy punches and a hammer or whatever else, the cost to have it done by an expert should be minimal.
So please don't take offense, but if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, spend a few dollars and have it done professionally. Your piece of mind knowing that it is done correctly and will operate dependably in a life or death situation if needed will be priceless.

The cost really isn't minimal at $60-75 and my concern is if I have to send it in to S&W, I've read/was told that you have to put the stock trigger back in, that's more money. I'd rather learn how to do it myself. If I were doing the full kit, I'd probably have someone do it but just the trigger looks fairly simple, I've watched the video multiple times. I don't know what would be considered mechanically inclined, I have finished my basement myself and installed/replaced all the outlets. I've also designed and built some furniture.

It's hard to know if someone is really qualified, one guy I called said it took him 1 1/2 hours to do it on someone else's gun, he said they are all generic and have to be made to fit the gun. I don't know if he was looking for an excuse to charge more money but that's not what I'm reading. If it turns out I can't do it, or if I have any issue, I'll take it to someone.

 

[Ksimons]

OP, Where in NH are you? I have the Apex armorers block that you are welcome to use. Plus a set of punches. I am about 15 min south of Nashua.

 

[chele519]

OP, Where in NH are you? I have the Apex armorers block that you are welcome to use. Plus a set of punches. I am about 15 min south of Nashua.

I am in Derry. That would be great if you don't mind!

 

[rodspade]

If it's the metal trigger, be prepared to use a vice to squeeze that pin into the trigger. I hear the plastic trigger is much easier to work with.

 

[sophie]

I struggled with 1/8" drift punches of Snap On and Craftsman and different ones and none will go thru the polymer frame of the pistol because of the size. I installed the Apex Polymer Trigger and the D/CAEK kit in my 9c. What an improvement. I really like the pistol now.

All of my 1/8" drift punches measure .125" and wouldn't go thru the frame.

I found a 1/8" Snap On roll pin punch #PPR4 and it is made in the USA and it is sized .120" and will go thru the side of the pistol with no problem and works great.

 

[karbyen]

I've found that after trying a couple different punches for adding a Apex kit to my Shield and replacing a trigger in a Sig 938, the absolute best punch is a Starrett 1/16"/1.5mm "nail set" from Amazon.