Python as an investment

[ISCS Yoda]

This one makes me scratch my head a little so I thought I'd seek other opinions.

I think most of us take the increase in value of our firearms as a secondary benefit to having these collections but, sure, some folks probably buy their guns with an eye towards future prices, especially these days. But here's what my friend wants to do that I don't understand - and he owns around a dozen or twenty different firearms of no special significance if you omit his inherited pre-Model 10 4" revolver....

He wants to buy a Colt Python as an investment. He figures if it costs him 2000 dollars today it will be worth 4000 dollars in 7 years and that's as good as any investment in today's economy. I don't quite get that - to me it's like buying one gold coin at 1500 dollars an ounce so you can sell it at 3000 dollars an ounce in 2022. Maybe....but what's the point?

If you want to invest in gold coins buy 20 or more at 1500 per ounce and if gold hits $3000 an ounce at any time sell the 20 and make a $30,000 profit - that would be worthwhile! What is the big deal as an investment if you make 1500 dollars after 7 years?

You can rightly assume that he doesn't have 30 grand in cash to buy 20 gold coins, or 15 Colt Pythons at 2000 dollars each. Most of us don't have that kind of cash lying around.

So, is this wise investing or dumb - or am I just a cynic because I wouldn't trade my Model 27 Classic for a Colt Python?

Thanks for clearing my head for me on this subject.

***GRJ***

 

[murphydog]

A commonly asked and complicated question.

As the financial folks say (mandated legally), "past performance is no guarantee of future results" - there are far too many variables to predict a Python, or any other gun not bought at a bargain basement price, is going to appreciate 14% per year indefinitely. Anyone who can predict gun values 10, or even 5, years into the future is either lucky or has a better crystal ball than me .

If your friend is buying it with the main expectation of financial appreciation I think he will be disappointed. If he is interested in the gun, is able to shoot it occasionally and its value is important but not the primary concern, he will probably be happier in the long term.

 

[M294Ever]

To double in 7 years, he is assuming a 10 per cent per year, increase. 10 % is a great return.

If it takes ten years to double, he earns 7% per year. Again, not a bad return.

COLLECTIBLE Guns are an excellent part of a diversified portfolio in my opinion.

 

[Engine49guy]

Several years back Pythons could be found for under $1000, then they went to $1400, then the market went crazy and every beat up Python with aftermarket grips was listing at or above $2400.

Unless its a rarer older version or 100% NIB I see plenty that list at $2000 today but that do not sell.

Also as a firearm IMO the Python and Diamondback have a vastly INFERIOR action and trigger feel to S&W,
Pythons are pretty and look cool with the vented rib and maybe 1 was made for every 1000 S*W 357's so they dont pop up as much.

As for being "Worth" double what a S&W 357 is worth probably explains why I have passed on any encountered for sale locally.

At $800 I would buy one, 100% NIB at$1400 mayyyybee....$2000 no thanks...all just IMO of course.

 

[Dennis The B]

The Colt Python is an anomaly in the market today. It carries an aura that other revolvers do not. It was very much a production custom revolver; hand-fitted and finished like no other domestically-produced gun. Only the German Korth would be in the same class.

Only a few years ago, Pythons were bringing prices in the $500-$1000 range. However, a number of folks who really wanted one for their collection have driven that price into the realm of the surreal. There has even been created a sub-market for boxes and documentation that a person in Sparta, TN, is now cornering.

The market has become extremely specialized. The 3" models are bringing amounts well over the "average", as well as bright stainless steel. And with those specialties come the forgeries. Some years back, Colt sold a number of 3" barrels into the public, and now those barrels have become the basis for counterfeit "Combat" Pythons; 4" models usually re-barreled. The need for authentication letters is more critical than ever, and folks who buy the rarer models can be easily burned without them. Caveat emptor.

At some point, the market will settle down. Those who have what they want, will put their Pythons in the safe, and wait. Others will turn over their revolvers, take the money and go on to something else.

Although not quite the same phenomenon, Alan Greenspan used a good term - "irrational exuberance".

As to others, they'll invest in mutual funds based on the S&P 500. They'll average 10% per year, and enjoy their retirement.

 

[arjay]

There's an old cliche that says when everyone is buying,it's time to sell.I kept one for five years and sold it a few months ago for three times what I paid.Theres no way of knowing how much higher prices for Pythons will go.

 

[jackvs1]

I do not buy any firearm as an investment. As for Pythons, if your friend can get a LNIB, 6 inch for $2000 he should fun & jump at that price. I have one from the 60's that I paid less then $2000 but I would not sell it; I have it in a display case in my office. Today I could probably get $2500 for it. Again buy at $2000.

 

[k22fan]

Would Beanie Babies have been a good investment at the height of the Beanie Baby craze? Tulip bulbs when one choice tulip bulb could be traded for a middle class house in Holland?

The hype about Pythons being polished, blued and assembled better than contemporary 27s, 57s, and 29s is just that, sales hype.

 

[Fastbolt]

I don't buy firearms as an investment.

Sure, looking at the current prices for a good used Python, it makes it appear that being able to sell one today, at today's prices, that you originally bought for $135 as a young man, would be a good thing. How many have you got put away like that?

Buying one for $1500-$2000 today, hoping it'll go to $4000 someday? Maybe if $2000 counts as pocket change to you, and you could afford to buy & smoke a couple $1000 cigars. (Hey, don't laugh, because I have a cigar in one of my humidors that originally came from a box of 20 cigars, and which sold for $22000. I didn't buy that box, of course, but I know the store that sold it, and the guy who bought it, and he gave one to me as a gift.)

I know a guy who can say he owns a couple 4" & 6" blued Pythons he bought for very little as a young cop (except it didn't seem like 'very little' back then, on his salary). Last I heard, he wasn't interested in selling them, but was keeping them for his son ... who would probably sell them, knowing what he does of today's market.

It's just a Python. I've turned down buying one in recent years for less than $400 and it was as close to 100% as you can hope to get. I just don't care for the feel and action of a Python. Nice Douglas barrels, sure.

The former S&W and Colt revolver armorer I used to work for really didn't like working on Pythons (and they were the issued revolvers for some years). He said he used to shoot one for competition back in the 70's, but he preferred S&W revolvers, as he just didn't care for what it took to keep a Python running if it was used for a lot of shooting.

If you like Pythons, and you can afford one at today's prices, it's your money and your choice. Doesn't have to be justified to anyone else.

Of course, neither do investment choices.

Suit yourself. if someone gave me a Python, I'd probably take it to the range once (for nostalgic reasons, as an older revolver shooter), and then either (legally) gift it to someone else, or sell it. (Let me think about that one a moment ... )

Once of my friends recently inherited a blued Python in very good condition. He offered it to me with some ammo to try out, which I did. It made me remember back all those years ago about why I never spent my money on one. You could almost sip coffee or light a cigar during its slow hammer fall.

Different strokes.

 

[ibewbull]

Buy what you like and will use. Then you can not loose. I have a Python, I never fired one . I like Smiths better. It cost nothing to keep as a safe queen. Someday maybe I will trade or sell it.
As for investment just look at AR prices dropping.
The old school classics are like gold coins com paired to gold bullion.
Prices will vary as historic and art value will.
Good luck let the buyer beware.

 

[Laketime]

I know during the day the Pythons sold for almost double what a K or L frame would sell for.

 

[Budnjax]

Because someone is asking a ridiculous

price doesn't mean it will sell for anything close to what they're asking. I visit local gun shows and see Pythons for sale for crazy high prices, but then I see the same Python being offered by the same seller at the same show a year later and no one has bought it. A lot of gun prices are just super hype. I was looking at the "Blue Book" years ago to see how they valued Marlin lever action rifles and it appeared their used prices were higher in some cases than I could buy the same gun new, in the box. The same is true with a lot of old military rifles. You'll see a book price stating that a certain gun in 90% is worth X number of dollars....OK, contact the book's author and see if he'll pay you 60% of that...I am sure he won't.

 

[ken158]

Guns are not an item to buy for an investment with expectation of a large return in the end. So what if you make a few grand? That's not going to send the kid to college or buy a new car... If it was a good idea then everyone would be doing it. Buy precious metals if you must invest in something you can hold in your hand, have to lock up to keep safe and show to friends.

 

[Muss Muggins]

This one makes me scratch my head a little so I thought I'd seek other opinions.

I think most of us take the increase in value of our firearms as a secondary benefit to having these collections but, sure, some folks probably buy their guns with an eye towards future prices, especially these days. But here's what my friend wants to do that I don't understand - and he owns around a dozen or twenty different firearms of no special significance if you omit his inherited pre-Model 10 4" revolver....

He wants to buy a Colt Python as an investment. He figures if it costs him 2000 dollars today it will be worth 4000 dollars in 7 years and that's as good as any investment in today's economy. I don't quite get that - to me it's like buying one gold coin at 1500 dollars an ounce so you can sell it at 3000 dollars an ounce in 2022. Maybe....but what's the point?

If you want to invest in gold coins buy 20 or more at 1500 per ounce and if gold hits $3000 an ounce at any time sell the 20 and make a $30,000 profit - that would be worthwhile! What is the big deal as an investment if you make 1500 dollars after 7 years?

You can rightly assume that he doesn't have 30 grand in cash to buy 20 gold coins, or 15 Colt Pythons at 2000 dollars each. Most of us don't have that kind of cash lying around.

So, is this wise investing or dumb - or am I just a cynic because I wouldn't trade my Model 27 Classic for a Colt Python?

Thanks for clearing my head for me on this subject.

***GRJ***

A: Guns are completely unpredictable as investments.

B: I wouldn't make that trade either.

 

[Peak53]

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

The Colt Python is an anomaly in the market today. It carries an aura that other revolvers do not. It was very much a production custom revolver; hand-fitted and finished like no other domestically-produced gun. Only the German Korth would be in the same class.

Only a few years ago, Pythons were bringing prices in the $500-$1000 range. However, a number of folks who really wanted one for their collection have driven that price into the realm of the surreal. There has even been created a sub-market for boxes and documentation that a person in Sparta, TN, is now cornering.

The market has become extremely specialized. The 3" models are bringing amounts well over the "average", as well as bright stainless steel. And with those specialties come the forgeries. Some years back, Colt sold a number of 3" barrels into the public, and now those barrels have become the basis for counterfeit "Combat" Pythons; 4" models usually re-barreled. The need for authentication letters is more critical than ever, and folks who buy the rarer models can be easily burned without them. Caveat emptor.

At some point, the market will settle down. Those who have what they want, will put their Pythons in the safe, and wait. Others will turn over their revolvers, take the money and go on to something else.

Although not quite the same phenomenon, Alan Greenspan used a good term - "irrational exuberance".

As to others, they'll invest in mutual funds based on the S&P 500. They'll average 10% per year, and enjoy their retirement.

You do know the Guy cornering the market is selling FAKE Boxes....Right?

 

[Richard Simmons]

While I don't consider firearms in general as an investment I do know a good deal when I see one and at under $1000 this one certainly qualifies.

 

[sigp220.45]

This guy has done for Pythons what Dirty Harry did for Model 29s.



I was skeptical until my sister, who wouldn't know a Python from a Hi-Point, texted me and asked what kind of gun Rick carried on Walking Dead. I told her, and she called the local sky-high priced gun shop and told them she wanted the next one that came in. Didn't blink at paying 3 grand. I have waved her off since, but there are a lot of people out there with a lot of money to spend.

I think Pythons have peaked and will slowly deflate, especially if the Walking Dead ever gets cancelled.

 

[Cleveland48]

I enjoy both colt and Smith and Wesson wheel guns. I own a late 60's 4" python I only shoot 38 or mild 357 through it cause the list of trained python Smith's is getting smaller. Gun is still very tight and accurate. Own a 29-3 and did own a 686. Currently looking for a model 19 or 66. Both makers have things I like over the other so I love em all lol

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

 

[Muss Muggins]

This guy has done for Pythons what Dirty Harry did for Model 29s.

Especially since it doesn't appear that have to have the front and rear sights of a Python aligned with your line of sight to hit a Zombie. Look closely at that picture. Just sayin' . . .

 

[Fastbolt]

One of the things that probably helped keep up the interest in both the Colt Python and the Detonics Combat Master in the 1980's was the series of Men's Adventure (called that in some bookstores of the day) pulp books called The Survivalist, written by Jerry Ahern. The series featured ex-CIA officer Dr. John Rourke, who carried a pair of Detonics Combat Master .45's and a Colt Python. (His hero had a liking for 158gr .357 Magnum loads, as I recall, though. I gave away my copies many years ago.)

It's always unsurprising when a TV or Movie character breaths new life into some firearm or blade.

 

[manderson]

This guy has done for Pythons what Dirty Harry did for Model 29s.

Anyone else who is my age wanted a Python as soon as Starsky & Hutch hit the TV, along with a Dirty Harry gun. Glad to say I still got both.

I think the Python craze is starting to level off. It certainly has been insane. Truth be told, there are a lot of Pythons out there. All of the safe queens have been coming out during the craze so the owners can take advantage of the current market, and the buyers are putting them in a new safe. I think ten or twenty years from now these will be passed on to a younger generation who have very little interest, and the market will once again be flooded, only not at absurdly inflated prices, or maybe you won't be able to give one away. The ones that will maintain serious value are the old two and three digit serial numbers in pristine condition. These are even now almost museum artifacts. Just my humble opinion. Only time will tell...

 

[Dennis The B]

Would Beanie Babies have been a good investment at the height of the Beanie Baby craze? Tulip bulbs when one choice tulip bulb could be traded for a middle class house in Holland?

The hype about Pythons being polished, blued and assembled better than contemporary 27s, 57s, and 29s is just that, sales hype.

Huge difference between Beanie Babies, tulip bulbs, and Colt Pythons. Beanie Babies were a popular fad not unlike Pet Rocks. And, ramp up in Dutch tulip bulbs was one primarily based on futures trading, and not any real rarity or scarcity of the tulip bulb itself. That's a risk taken in the commodities markets. The Dutch tulip bulb craze was also driven within a very small market of the time.

The same is true with baseball cards. Baseball cards have values based primarily on the popularity, rarity, or history of the particular player, and not any value based on manufacturing.

Colt Pythons, S&W Model 27's etc., have intrinsic value based on the amount of labor spent to produce the product. The same is true for Leica cameras and Rolex watches. Similar looking Rolexes and Seikos bring vastly different prices. And no one would compare a Patek Philippe to a Timex.

However, the "aura" of the Python and its polishing and hand-fitting is no myth, and is certainly not marketing hype. The parts were certainly polished better, and hand fitted, making the action very smooth from the outset. S&W actions do become "slicker", but that's a function of time and use. You also have to be cautious even comparing Pythons and S&W's. They have completely different actions, working differently to accomplish the same task.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

Huge difference between Beanie Babies, tulip bulbs, and Colt Pythons. Beanie Babies were a popular fad not unlike Pet Rocks. And, ramp up in Dutch tulip bulbs was one primarily based on futures trading, and not any real rarity or scarcity of the tulip bulb itself. That's a risk taken in the commodities markets. The Dutch tulip bulb craze was also driven within a very small market of the time.

The same is true with baseball cards. Baseball cards have values based primarily on the popularity, rarity, or history of the particular player, and not any value based on manufacturing.

Colt Pythons, S&W Model 27's etc., have intrinsic value based on the amount of labor spent to produce the product. The same is true for Leica cameras and Rolex watches. Similar looking Rolexes and Seikos bring vastly different prices. And no one would compare a Patek Philippe to a Timex.

However, the "aura" of the Python and its polishing and hand-fitting is no myth, and is certainly not marketing hype. The parts were certainly polished better, and hand fitted, making the action very smooth from the outset. S&W actions do become "slicker", but that's a function of time and use. You also have to be cautious even comparing Pythons and S&W's. They have completely different actions, working differently to accomplish the same task.

VERY well put Dennis.

 

[Engine49guy]

Who was it that once said " A good Colt gunsmith might make a Colt Python trigger nice for big gunsmith fees but it would'nt reset as fast or last as long as the S&W" ...... Was it JM himself ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cbVl3cDMTY
FF to 12:38 ...and 20:20

I have both...Colts are very pretty and sell for more $$$...but IMO ...S&W's are better "Guns".

 

[Lt.cap'nadmiral jeeves]

In my opinion the market is going to plateau and possibly contract at some point in the future. They are not exceptional guns, they are definitely not rare and the rate that the prices have risen doesn't seem sustainable. If it's true that the walking dead has fueled the mania, it's entirely possible the market could collapse, as I don't see the average walking dead viewer as the type of die hard gun collector who will keep the gun forever. At some point some new craze will capture their imagination and they'll be selling their pythons for the new limited editition marvel thingamajig toy.

I think gunbroker is partially driving the market too, people see that sellers are listing them for absurdly high prices but what they don't see is that hundreds of those pistols are relisted over and over at that high price and they just sit. But when one is posted in a no reserve auction format, they let emotion take over and then bid them up to these silly prices. Then those prices become the new norm.

 

[Dennis The B]

In my opinion the market is going to plateau and possibly contract at some point in the future. They are not exceptional guns, they are definitely not rare and the rate that the prices have risen doesn't seem sustainable. If it's true that the walking dead has fueled the mania, it's entirely possible the market could collapse, as I don't see the average walking dead viewer as the type of die hard gun collector who will keep the gun forever. At some point some new craze will capture their imagination and they'll be selling their pythons for the new limited editition marvel thingamajig toy.

I think gunbroker is partially driving the market too, people see that sellers are listing them for absurdly high prices but what they don't see is that hundreds of those pistols are relisted over and over at that high price and they just sit. But when one is posted in a no reserve auction format, they let emotion take over and then bid them up to these silly prices. Then those prices become the new norm.

Spot on analysis! All markets adjust/correct over time, and the growth curve spikes will have those gaps filled by adjustments.

Amen to the GB phenomenon. It only takes a few clicks, and your MC/VISA and you're the owner of an overpriced piece of hardware. GB is only a part of the market. Look what Python, S&W Coke, and name-brand stocks bring on eBay.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Sidebar - one of the guns he was looking at on GB went from 2200 to 3600 in a bidding frenzy at the last minute. My buddy was stunned. So was I when he told me.

 

[one eye joe]

THE PYTHON MARKET MAY CORRECT ITSELF, BUT I DOUBT THAT YOU WILL SEE NICE PYTHONS AVAILABLE IN THE $1,000. TO $1,500. RANGE AGAIN, IN YOUR LIFETIME…….

 

[Jeffrey A. Cooper]

I think that the value of the Python has more to it than a show on the grove tube. There has not been a decent cowboy show in the last thirty years, except Lonesome Dove, yet first generation SAA continue to be the most expensive model ever traded. Has there ever been a TV show where someone carried a Colt Viper? Its a great conceal gun but $2,000.00, really? Good guns will always be a good investment, but an investment best held by a person that enjoys what they really were made for.