exactly sub par is still not acceptable when it's your bacon on the line!!!!!
Quality Control Department
- Thread starter KJS
- Start date
In the real world sometimes good enough is not good enough, this company is paid a good dollar to produce a good product and boasting a lifetime warranty is not the answer for a sub par product. i know all firearm producers have some problems, but what I read on Smith's and Glock forums there are too many smith's being sent back for warranty work, all I own are Smith&Wesson ,but I will not buy another until the QC gets better, IMO.
Bajadoc
US Veteran
Remember, these are devices to be used in the gravest extreme. They must work. They are not just for target practice or hunting or collecting. Maybe Smith should make two lines of revolvers. One line that works and one line that probably works. I will pay extra for the one that works. Test the ones you really need.
I've watched those video's of Smith & Wesson making and assembling revolvers . You'd think the workers are in a race to see who can put them together the fastest .If I was buying a new Smith today I'd be willing to pay extra for an hour more of labor just to get everything right .
My Freedom Arms wheel guns are very expensive but everything is spot on .
My Freedom Arms wheel guns are very expensive but everything is spot on .
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hoosierone
Member
Wonder if S&W considers the PR aspect of an unhappy customer. Whenever I buy a gun I research it into the ground before pulling the trigger. 
I've passed on several guns because of negative comments I've read on the internet. A manufacturer will never know how much business is lost because of negative customer feedback. I would say hire the QC people and have the gun checked before it goes out the door. The Japanese can do it with cars, Americans should be able to do it with guns.
I've passed on several guns because of negative comments I've read on the internet. A manufacturer will never know how much business is lost because of negative customer feedback. I would say hire the QC people and have the gun checked before it goes out the door. The Japanese can do it with cars, Americans should be able to do it with guns.
Actually, that is not obvious to me, nor to probably the other 95% of gun owners who don't know what a strain screw is.
Yes, now is everyone's chance to attack me for my failure to have a background in finance rather than gunsmitthing.
Bajadoc
US Veteran
Out of curiosity, were you able to check the strain screw?
I did not know about the strain screw issue either until reading this thread. I immediately Googled "S&W revolver strain screw" and it was all laid out there in pictures and diagrams. Looks very simple to check & fix, just remove your grips and it is down at the bottom of the grip frame.
This is good info to have. Might save a trip back to the factory.
slabside2
Member
DWalt
Member
I'm not a Glocker, and don't even own one, but I almost never hear any badmouthing of their functional quality. Nor of Berettas. I know much more about the Beretta 92 (Military M9) than any other handgun, and I know of no quality-related problems after the infamous slide cracking issue back in the early days. So how do Beretta and Glock do it?
Pizza Bob
Member
Whoa there hoss. I was just trying to ask a question without insulting your intelligence. I could have said, "Hey, idiot, tighten the strain screw." Learn to accept a little help without becoming adversarial.
No good deed goes unpunished. I also think you insulted the many that do know what a strain screw is and what it does.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
S&W has a manufacturing strategy of "maintaining a temporary workforce and outsourcing production of certain key components".
That doesn't strike me as being a recipe for consistent quality control.
Is Smith & Wesson Holding Corp Stock a Buy After Its Revenue Misfire?
In other words, they are made by temps, using parts manufactured in Outer Slobbovia.
That doesn't strike me as being a recipe for consistent quality control.
Is Smith & Wesson Holding Corp Stock a Buy After Its Revenue Misfire?
In other words, they are made by temps, using parts manufactured in Outer Slobbovia.
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There wasn't even a repair department until they stopped pinning barrels, and it actually never repaired a gun until MIM parts started exploding.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
After three bad brand new chevy's in a row I'm happy with my cars from Japan and my old faithful 99 jeep.
The best running jeep I have is a willy's 1955.
I can accept a problem with a gun. I had two new Colts with problems.
I like my S&W revolvers for sure.
I still have prostate cancer even though it's in remission. I don't sweat the things in life that go wrong anymore. I've traded bad new guns in.
I feel your pain brother for sure. But S&W stands behind there products they will fix it. Let's face it there isn't much out there that's equal to a Smith.
After my bad luck with colt 1911's I purchased every how to DVD from AGI, WILSON COMBAT and Jerry K to learn how to build, tune, and repair 1911's. I tuned and built my norinco 1911 she shoots clusters and cloverleafs at 25yds. No matter who shoots it.
My curse was if there was one thing that had problems out of 100,000 I'd get the bad one, cars, trucks, washers, tv, chairs, you name it.
My new Smith's are good.
Three brand new Remington 1100's failed to open the bolt in the store. The fourth one opened.
The best running jeep I have is a willy's 1955.
I can accept a problem with a gun. I had two new Colts with problems.
I like my S&W revolvers for sure.
I still have prostate cancer even though it's in remission. I don't sweat the things in life that go wrong anymore. I've traded bad new guns in.
I feel your pain brother for sure. But S&W stands behind there products they will fix it. Let's face it there isn't much out there that's equal to a Smith.
After my bad luck with colt 1911's I purchased every how to DVD from AGI, WILSON COMBAT and Jerry K to learn how to build, tune, and repair 1911's. I tuned and built my norinco 1911 she shoots clusters and cloverleafs at 25yds. No matter who shoots it.
My curse was if there was one thing that had problems out of 100,000 I'd get the bad one, cars, trucks, washers, tv, chairs, you name it.
My new Smith's are good.
Three brand new Remington 1100's failed to open the bolt in the store. The fourth one opened.
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Jamesatrange
Member
What has happened in many fields is the older experienced folks have aged out and moved onto retirement. They're being replaced with less expensive and under experienced staff, the younger folks. It takes time for the new generation to catch up to the skills, but with fast paced and demanding work places for less pay they don't always stay put. Let's face it the world has changed and so has our gun manufacturers way of doing business. They have to try to maintain a price point to stay in business and do it by selling more and more to sustain the growth required to keep stock holders happy. It's like the perfect storm. What will happen is with enough constructive feedback they'll have to pay attention and fine tune the issues. With such high output things will get out the door less than perfect at times and frustrate some. Try to keep the faith and help them work through the issues with constructive feedback. They will make good on your issues in the end.
I do believe that quality control is the responsibly of the manufacturer…….be it a handgun, or a pickup……but I do have a question of your knowledge of firearms in general when you make the statement, …….
"I admit I'm a very picky man, but in this case I don't think I'm being too picky to expect a revolver to actually fire 100% of the time instead of leaving 3 of 7 rounds in a clip unfired."……….
I don't own any S&W revolvers that hold 7 rounds……or that use a "clip"…….but I don't own a lot of the "new S&W revolvers"
Semper Fi!
"I admit I'm a very picky man, but in this case I don't think I'm being too picky to expect a revolver to actually fire 100% of the time instead of leaving 3 of 7 rounds in a clip unfired."……….
I don't own any S&W revolvers that hold 7 rounds……or that use a "clip"…….but I don't own a lot of the "new S&W revolvers"
Semper Fi!
JDBoardman
US Veteran
As was stated earlier, you cannot inspect quality into a product - you must engineer and build it into the final product. If you assume that each step in a manufacturing process receives a 100% inspection, you will still miss about 20% of the defects - that is reality, and it was proven in the 1940's by Drs. Deming and Juran, who were the fathers of modern quality control. your best and most reliable route to high product quality is the concept of 'Operator Certification' or OPCERT. In this process, any quality-affecting step is performed by an operator (machinist, assembler, welder, whatever) who has been trained in the use of the necessary dimensional measuring tools and has demonstrated his skill at performing his operation and the necessary checks without failure - "quality is everyone's job". Only a percentage of the operations are checked by QC (inspection by sampling), and only a percentage of the final product receives an inspection. While this may seem counter-intuitive, statistical process control does work, and it yields a higher quality product than individual 100% inspection. This is what was taught to the Japanese by Deming and Juran in the late 1950's and 1960's and adopted by them and imposed by the Japanese Ministry of Trade and Industry to improve the image of Japanese products.
And for those who still believe that Japanese cars are superior in product quality, I would suggest that they actually research the facts - American cars are equally as good today (not always so, but we have made dramatic improvements) and the highly touted German cars seem to have the highest number of problems per unit. And by the way, many of the "Oh so superior Japanese" cars are actually assembled in America.
And for those who still believe that Japanese cars are superior in product quality, I would suggest that they actually research the facts - American cars are equally as good today (not always so, but we have made dramatic improvements) and the highly touted German cars seem to have the highest number of problems per unit. And by the way, many of the "Oh so superior Japanese" cars are actually assembled in America.
I am amazed that so many posters believe that Quality Control Departments still exist. Most have been gone in the US since the early 90's. I know someone will post behind me otherwise and I'm sure someone still has those Departments but not many company's do. I sent a gun back to Smith and it was repaired correctly and back to me in less than 2 weeks. I posted about the great service on here and not one comment followed. Had I posted how bad the service was I would have had many jump on the bandwagon. Why is that? Can someone tell me?
Keep in mind that I was firing what is simply a range toy for fun. What if someone had instead been firing a 686 in a life & death situation? This kind of failure could leave them dead, instead of merely annoyed. Do you tell a dead person's family, "well, not all guns are going to work when they're supposed to."?
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