Quest for "Perfect" 44 Special Load?

[akjaeger]

I'm looking for the "perfect" 44 Special load.
A 250 grain Keith type bullet at around 950 fps, accurate to at least 100 yards, no leading, relatively quiet and easy on the gun.
The problem is to find a commercial source of accurate cast bullets that are made with something close to the lyman #2 alloy. Most of the commercially available cast bullets are "hard", I think they're too hard for this project. I'm getting leading in the first inch of the barrel until these"hard" bullets get pushed to nearly 1100fps, then it goes away.
The Leadhead PM44-250 has given the best accuracy, especially when driven faster. 14.5 grains of Alliant 2400 @ 980fps is probably my favorite load with this bullet. 7.5 grains of Unique @ 920 fps and 8.5 grains of Longshot @ 930 fps are also very good loads.
The group shown below was shot at 100yards and includes a cylinder full of each of the above loads shot through my 5" 27-2 converted to 44 Special. I was surprised that the three loads all shot to the same point of Impact @ 100 yards.
What I'd like to get out of this thread are some sources for softer cast bullets and some ideas on different powders.

 

[max]

Have you thought about trying some of the new coated bullets?

.44 MAG/SPL 240 Semi Wad Cutter - Coated - 1000ct - snscasting

 

[rmac]

44 Special load

Rim Rock Bullets make a real Keith bullet with a Brinell hardness of 10-12. Just what Elmer recommended. They are excellent.

 

[rck281]

Missouri Bullets offers the choice of 12 or 18 Brinell hardness

 

[JBnTx]

I shoot the 240gr RNFP Hi-Tek coated bullet from Missouri Bullet Company, with 6.5 grains of Unique.
It has a BHN of 12 and doesn't lead the bore. Shot in a Ruger Blackhawk 44 Special.

I've shot many one hole groups from 25yds, and always drive home with a smile on my face.

..

 

[Forrest r]

I'd be looking @ the coated bullets also.

They are softer than their traditional cast counterparts that they sell.

For what it's worth, matching bhn with velocities:
8bhn/40 to 1 ='s 800fps
9bhn/30 to 1 ='s 900fps
10bhn/20 to 1 ='s 1000fps

The bhn/hardness of a bullet can overlap, typical wheel weight alloy is 10bhn to 12bhn. Allot of casters use this alloy and then water drop them & get around 15bhn from the quench hardening.

The harder the alloy, the more precise the fit & powder pressures have to be, hence your statement I get leading the 1st inch of the bbl with the extremely hard commercial cast bullets.

Typical commercial coated bullets are in the 10bhn to 12bhn range. I depended on the alloy they started with. The coating process uses a oven to heat/bake/cure the coating. The coatings usually take around 10 minutes to cure @ around 375* to 410*. A by-product of this baking process is that it anneals the metals in the lead alloys (lead itself can't be annealed) making that alloy softer.

The win/win with coated bullets.
The coating will actually give you higher velocities that their traditional lubed counterparts. There's no leading with the coated bullets & the softer alloy expands/seals the cylinders & bore better allowing the user to have a wider range of velocities/pressures/velocities that provide accurate loads.

If you want to stick with the traditional lubed bullets Matt's bullets has some excellent choices for the 44spl. He will actually cast bullets with a 20 to 1 alloy (10bhn) specifically for the 44spl.

I see the loads you're using are towards the upper end for the 44spl. When I want something a little hot I'll use a 250g keith clone bullet paired with either 8.0g of powder pistol the old standard 10.0g of bluedot. I normally don't "hotrod" my 44spl loads, thast's why I have a couple 44mag's laying around, bbuuuuuuttttt, 16.0g of h110 will take that 250g bullet to the next level.

 

[David R]

I used Coated bullets in my Charter arms. They are accurate and do not lead the bore. I do not shoot my 2.5" gun 100 yards much. The first box of 500 is gone.

Enjoy.

 

[Marcruger]

Hello akjaeger, I have been down a similar path.

In regards to lead bullets, it was recommended to me to try Oregon Trails Laser Cast 240 grain LSWCs. Yes, they are fairly hard, and yes they are bevel base. As was pointed out to me, for some reason they just work. They are pre-lubed and sized. I tumble-lube them with Lee liquid Alox lube as a precautionary measure. I get very little leading at 900-1000fps.

Any leading can usually be removed quickly with a brush dipped in turpentine. Yep, it really works. Shiloh Creek Bore solvent also does super at removing lead, and you can smell the turpentine in it.
Some revolvers just lead. Badly. Something to do with bore finishing I'd guess. If the leading builds up so fast it degrades accuracy, well, I'd switch to jacketed for that particular troublesome revolver.

Your load of 7.5 grains of Unique is a classic and works great for me. That said, I would hesitate to recommend it for anything other than healthy N-frame S&W .44 Specials, .44 Magnum handguns, or similar stoutly built revolvers. Just don't want someone hurting themselves and/or a nice old Colt SAA. Put me down as "cautious".

I've tried 231 and Power Pistol for equivalent loads, but in my experience Unique has the ever-so-slight edge. Your mileage may vary.

God Bless, Marc

 

[Vulcan Bob]

My standard .44Special load is a Lyman 429421 with COWW plus 2% tin alloy at 250gr at .430" diameter lubed with SPG with 8.0 of Power Pistol. This is a standard pressure load according to Brian Pearce in Handloader and depending on barrel length will do 950-1,000fps. This is a very accurate load in my Specials and produces zero bore leading. A standby load is the old Skeeter Skelton load using Unique with the same bullet.

 

[akjaeger]

Thanks for the replies, lot's of interesting info.
I just got some of the Rimrock 260 grain Keith bullets, maybe try them today.

 

[jtcarm]

I'd be looking @ the coated bullets also.

They are softer than their traditional cast counterparts that they sell.

For what it's worth, matching bhn with velocities:
8bhn/40 to 1 ='s 800fps
9bhn/30 to 1 ='s 900fps
10bhn/20 to 1 ='s 1000fps

There's no set formula. It's going to vary according to bore & chamber throat dimensions and how closely the boolit is sized to the chamber throats. Most commercial boolits are too hard & too small to seal the throats.

It's pressure rather than velocity that causes the boolit to obturate.

 

[Krogen]

In regards to lead bullets, it was recommended to me to try Oregon Trails Laser Cast 240 grain LSWCs. Yes, they are fairly hard, and yes they are bevel base. As was pointed out to me, for some reason they just work. They are pre-lubed and sized. I tumble-lube them with Lee liquid Alox lube as a precautionary measure. I get very little leading at 900-1000fps.

Interesting - your results with Oregon Trail matches mine. I have had excellent accuracy in my Model 24's and a K-38. They are as good as flat base bullets. No other bevel base bullet that I've used (really!) will match their performance. I can only attribute it to the alloy they use. I have scratched my head on this, but they do work. So I buy 'em!

 

[Sebago Son]

My favorite load for the 24-3 is 6.1 grains of Red Dot and Tennessee Valley Bullets 243 grain Keith.

.44 Harmony_zpspb4scqja.jpg Photo by SebagoSon | Photobucket

This load works well for me...



I don't load them in huge batches, but it's a joy to make every cartridge...

 

[UnderDawgAl]

Similar to the Red Dot load, try 6.0-6.2 grains of Green Dot. Great load in my gun.

 

[akjaeger]

Marcruger
"Any leading can usually be removed quickly with a brush dipped in turpentine. Yep, it really works."

I tried this today and it worked great! I had two 44 specials cleaned in the time it normally takes for one. I'd never heard of using turpentine before.

No real luck with the Rimrock bullets, tried loads with 2400, Unique, Longshot and WW296. For such a good looking bullet they don't shoot in my guns. The Leadheads will consistently make six shot groups at 100 yards that I can cover with my hand, the Rimrocks won't even stay on on a B-27 target at that range, 3 or 4 within a foot and the other two clear off the paper! 50 yard groups were about 12" with all the powders and loads tried.
I'll try the Rimrocks in some full on magnum loads someday.

 

[akjaeger]

I would really like to stay with the "Keith" design, so I ordered some 255 grain Keith SWC's from Matt's Bullets to try next.

 

[ironhead7544]

The Skeeter load with 240/250 gr commercial bullets has worked well for me.

Try some gas check versions if leading is a problem.

Also Trail Boss powder. In the 44 Magnum, a max load with a 200 gr RNFP commercial bullet goes 950 fps with no leading from a 5.5 inch barrel. 1100 fps from a 20 inch with no leading.

 

[DGNY]

Beautiful 5" 27-2/44 Special. Your groups at 100 yards are to be envied. Wish I had a recommendation to improve what I see displayed.

The Skeeter load with 7.5 gr Unique looks like a winner as-is.

Congratulations from one who wishes he could do as well!

Regards,

Dyson

 

[mikld]

Normally, leading at/near the beginning of the barrel is due to bullets too small and too hard. Every lead reloader needs to know a few dimensions; the groove diameter of their gun, the diameter of the cylinder throats, and the diameter of the bullet. The groove diameter must be smaller than the cylinder throat diameter, and the bullet is best matched to the cylinder throat diameter (example; my .44 Ruger has .430"-431" throat diameters to a .429" groove diameter. Bullets sized to .431"-.432" do not lead the barrel with a wide range of alloys/BHN). BHN takes a back seat to proper bullet-to-gun-fit. Find any one of the major casters that offer a range of diameters bullets per caliber and purchase one to fit your gun...

 

[Forrest r]

There's no set formula. It's going to vary according to bore & chamber throat dimensions and how closely the boolit is sized to the chamber throats. Most commercial boolits are too hard & too small to seal the throats.

It's pressure rather than velocity that causes the boolit to obturate.

Thank you for the interesting take on the bhn/velocity. I found that it will hold water 99.9% of the time. I've always viewed lead by what a hp does or can do.

Something to think about:
If a lead bullet/hp can not fully expand than what makes anyone think it will obturate in the cylinders? Or if a hp bullet with too soft/low bhn/shatters, what makes anyone think that the bullet will not skid/deform in the cylinders or bbl throats.

A link from the 1950's showing velocities & bhn's for hp bullets in the 44psl. If you look at the pictures of the bullets not only will they show you what alloys expanded at what velocities and what alloys didn't you can also see some of the bullets bases didn't change/obturate.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44 spl - may 1953 american rifleman.pdf

Thru personal experience I've found that 10bhn wc/hbwc bullets don't seem to do so hot in the 44spl every time I tried to run them in the 750fps to 800fps range. And the same thing with 8bhn bullets when they get over 1000fps.

But every firearm's different. I just try to follow the trends that people figured out decades ago.