Question about DA frontier serial numbers

[twaits]

While reading another thread Deadin showed a picture of the matching serial number on the barrel assembly right next to the latch. I never noticed this before so I cleaned off this area on mine and low and behold there's a number there. Problem is...it doesn't match!
This seems odd to me as the gun letters correctly as a 6 1/2" .44-40 that left the factory in 1896 in nickel/rubber. The patina matches the entire gun perfectly. The rest of the parts carry the serial number on the butt. 6512.
Is it possible that this was a factory screw up? I thought the only thing incorrect about the gun was the front sight blade which someone replaced with an old coin at some point.
What do you guys think?

 

[deadin]

Is it possible that this was a factory screw up?

Anything is possible with S&W....

I've always wondered about just "how" the 44 DA series were numbered and assembled. Consider this:

Short cylinder 44 Russians were numbered from 1 to 54,668 with 53,590 made from 1881 -1913.
44 Favorites were made 1882-1883 with around 1,000 numbered in the 8900-10,600 range of the 44 Russian series
44 Frontiers were serialized in their own series of 1 to 15,340 and made from 1886 -1913 thereby duplicating the first 15,340 numbers in the 44 Russian "short cylinder" series.
OK, taken from the given numbers and dates, it looks like S&W either produced some 15,340 "short cylinder" guns by 1886 and then switched to the "long cylinder" models, made 15,340 44/40 long cylinder and then switched chambering to 44 Russian for the rest of the production run, or they ran simultaneous production lines for the short and long cylinder guns up until no later than 1898 when frame production stopped.
This, coupled with the fact that they were still being cataloged until 1913, tends to possibly indicate there was a lot of "late" assembly going on and compounding the chance that something could get mixed up. (See Capt. John's "short cylinder" with a high serial.)
My confusion on the above is predicated by my assumption that besides the difference in the cylinder length, there also has to be a difference in the frame and barrel extension between the two lengths. I don't have a short cylinder gun to compare to my 44/40, but can't see any way the short and long cylinders could be interchangeable on the same frame.
OK, are you now as confused as I am??

 

[Captain John Jarrett]

Gents,

Hope you don't mind me eavesdropping on your conversation, but I'm finding the whole affair rather fascinating!

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is to address Dean's last paragraph of the above response...in that he is correct in his assertion that the two would not be interchangeable!

Take a look at the picture of my two revolvers side by side, I have the recoils shields lined up almost perfectly with each other, but not only is the cylinder shorter on the First Model but notice that the top strap/barrel/frame assembly is quite a bit shorter overall and that the breach end of the First Model barrel would actually be inside the cylinder of the Frontier Model if you were to try and mate them together!

John.

 

[twaits]

Thanks for the reponse Deadin.
It does all get a bit confusing. I think that most likely the barrel on my 44-40 is the one that left with the gun when it was new.
I think you'll find screw ups like this with other companies as well.
I have a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer .38 ACP that was made in 1920. The serial number under the slide when you take the slide off is a bit over 100 off from the serial number on the frame. I believe this was accidentally swapped either at the factory, or when a distributor or gun dealer got more than one in a shipment, the slides were removed from two and mixed up.
Strange things happen.

 

[rhmc24]

I checked 8 and only one has different numbers bbl to frame. Five are .44-40, three are .44 Russ. Of the 8 only one has the short cylinder. One of the long cyl .44 Russ s/n 4465 I reamed and shoot .44 Specials in it. Short cyl .44 Russ s/n is 35xx. .44-40s s/ns 22xx, 22xx, 90xx, 141xx. Other long cyl .44 Russ s/ns 484xx, 545xx

 

[deadin]

Just out of curiosity, which number does the latch and cylinder match on the one that the frame and barrel don't match?

 

[rhmc24]

484xx - No mystery about why or when, I replaced the barrel with one 40xxx. Great condition, sharp gun with sad, sad bore. I found a like new 6 1/2" barrel and replaced it, sold the original for almost enuf to pay for the change. I know --- heresy, but I now have a beautiful shooter. Only other 22xx with a fine bore, a lot of original blue but short barrel. All the others are nickel.

 

[deadin]

Now I'm getting even more confused. I just re-read your list of 44 DA's and you said you reamed out a 44 Russian long cylinder to accept 44 Specials. Interesting conversion, but you have(had) a 44 Russian long cylinder with a serial number under 15,340??
I guess that must be the mate to Capt John's 44 Russian short cylinder with a serial above 15,340. Or are all the books wrong with where the break was?
You guys need to swap serial numbers and then the world will be back in order...

 

[rhmc24]

CORRECTION- Above I gave 4465 as s/n of mine I converted to .44 Soecial which was wrong. The number is 482xx. At the time the gun was out having red stones installed in the eyes of the steerhead and I got the number by process of elimination & description from my data base. Now I have to explore that. Sorry for confusion.

Here is the gun pre-red stones:

 

[deadin]

Good! Half of the mystery solved. Now if we can just figure out Capt. John's.....

BTW, nice looking Frontier. Is the engraving yours?

 

[rhmc24]

Yes, the whole 9 yards. The grips I had made in Belgian Congo, Africa in 1951 working there. My Dad sent me sets of factory grips that I had native carvers copy one mm oversize so I could fit them. I had Colt SAA, S&W N & K frame maybe 15 sets in all @ about $6 a set. This grip I originally had on my New Model 3 I had bought in France few months before. I did the engraving 3 - 4 years ago & cut the grips down to fit & put the silver on.
See grips now: