Question about Takata Japanese Contract NM#3

[BC38]

I was looking at one of these and had a question.
Is it normal for the cylinder to "freewheel" with the hammer down - or should the cylinder stop engage the cylinder notches when the hammer is down?
I expected the cylinder to lock up even with the hammer down, but the seller said that it is normal for the cylinder to spin freely until the hammer is cocked, and that is the only time that the cylinder locks up.
Is he right?

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


The short answer is NO. But make sure the hammer is all the
way down. The first "click" of the hammer is just barely off of
the down position. This first click is the "loading" stop and in
this position will allow the cylinder to rotate. So make sure
the hammer IS ALL THE WAY DOWN.

Depending on when it was made, many of these have a "re-
bounding hammer." This was a safety device that prevented
the firing pin from contacting the cartridge except when the
hammer drops during firing. The firing pin normally sits just
inside the recoil shield when the revolver is at rest. (and is
just slightly down from of the "loading" stop).

Does the cylinder lock at full cock?

Just a little background, the cylinder stop is controlled by the
trigger. When the trigger is pulled back, the cylinder stop
should be up and can engage the cylinder.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[BC38]

Hi There,


The short answer is NO. But make sure the hammer is all the
way down. The first "click" of the hammer is just barely off of
the down position. This first click is the "loading" stop and in
this position will allow the cylinder to rotate. So make sure
the hammer IS ALL THE WAY DOWN.

Depending on when it was made, many of these have a "re-
bounding hammer." This was a safety device that prevented
the firing pin from contacting the cartridge except when the
hammer drops during firing. The firing pin normally sits just
inside the recoil shield when the revolver is at rest. (and is
just slightly down from of the "loading" stop).

Does the cylinder lock at full cock?

Just a little background, the cylinder stop is controlled by the
trigger. When the trigger is pulled back, the cylinder stop
should be up and can engage the cylinder.


Cheers!
Webb

OK, so if I am understanding you, if this particular gun has the "rebounding hammer", when when the trigger is pulled to lower the hammer to its "at rest" position, it won't be fully forward and the cylinder will (or at least MAY) spin freely, just as it does with the hammer in the "loading stop" position? But even if that is the case, if you pull the trigger the cylinder stop will engage? Is that correct?

In answer to your question, YES, the cylinder does lock up when the hammer is cocked.

I'm just trying to figure out if this gun is functioning normally or if something is broken.

 

[iby]

The short answer is no

 

[BC38]

The short answer is no

Thanks, but I am looking for a bit more information - not just the short version.
Can you elaborate on NO to which of my questions - or is NO your final answer?

 

[Masterpiece]

OK, so if I am understanding you, if this particular gun has the "rebounding hammer", when when the trigger is pulled to lower the hammer to its "at rest" position, it won't be fully forward and the cylinder will (or at least MAY) spin freely, just as it does with the hammer in the "loading stop" position?

In answer to your question, YES, the cylinder does lock up when the hammer is cocked.

I'm just trying to figure out if this gun is functioning normally or if something is broken.

The short answer is NO. But make sure the hammer is all the way down. The first "click" of the hammer is just barely off of the down position. This first click is the "loading" stop and in
this position will allow the cylinder to rotate.

****So make sure the hammer IS ALL THE WAY DOWN.****

Depending on when it was made, many of these have a "re-
bounding hammer." This was a safety device that prevented
the firing pin from contacting the cartridge except when the
hammer drops during firing. The firing pin normally sits just
inside the recoil shield when the revolver is at rest. (and is
just slightly down from of the "loading" stop).

BC38,

Since what you posted is still somewhat unclear...Here's the best way I can think of to answer the way it's supposed to work!! And "Yes" Your Revolver has a Rebounding Hammer!!

Here goes...With the Revolver closed & unloaded...Pull the Hammer back to it's Full Cock Position then pull the Trigger keeping Your Finger resting on the Hammer Knurling holding it there until the Hammer is in it's fully closed position..."But" before the Hammer rebounds back to it's Loading Position...That way if the Cyl. is still in the locked position as it should be you should be good to go!!

Hope I explained it clearly enough for you to understand...If not get back to us & we'll have another go at it!!

 

[BC38]

BC38,

Since what you posted is still somewhat unclear...Here's the best way I can think of to answer the way it's supposed to work!! And "Yes" Your Revolver has a Rebounding Hammer!!

Here goes...With the Revolver closed & unloaded...Pull the Hammer back to it's Full Cock Position then pull the Trigger keeping Your Finger resting on the Hammer Knurling holding it there until the Hammer is in it's fully closed position..."But" before the Hammer rebounds back to it's Loading Position...That way if the Cyl. is still in the locked position as it should be you should be good to go!!

Hope I explained it clearly enough for you to understand...If not get back to us & we'll have another go at it!!

I'll have to go take a second look at it to see if the cylinder locks up when I push the hammer forward and/or when putting pressure on the trigger with the hammer in its "resting" position (down but NOT pushed forward}.
I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[Masterpiece]

I'll have to go take a second look at it to see if the cylinder locks up when I push the hammer forward and/or when putting pressure on the trigger with the hammer in its "resting" position (down but NOT pushed forward.
I'll let you know what I find out.

BC38,

Unless something's worn when it's in the Resting Position...You shouldn't be able to push the Hammer forward unless the Trigger is pulled letting it move farther forward to lock up the Cyl.!! Just thought I'd pass that along in case what I made mention of earlier wasn't explained clearly enough...Good Luck!!

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

OK, so if I am understanding you, if this particular gun has the "rebounding hammer", when when the trigger is pulled to lower the hammer to its "at rest" position, it won't be fully forward and the cylinder will (or at least MAY) spin freely, just as it does with the hammer in the "loading stop" position? But even if that is the case, if you pull the trigger the cylinder stop will engage? Is that correct?

In answer to your question, YES, the cylinder does lock up when the hammer is cocked.

I'm just trying to figure out if this gun is functioning normally or if something is broken.

Sorry, but you have the wrong end of the stick. When the
hammer is down, the cylinder should be locked. Having the
rebounding hammer doesn't affect this. I only mention this
because the "at rest" forward position is only a little more
forward than the "loading" position.

What can affect this is a broken trigger. If the tip of the trig-
ger is broken off, the trigger will sit too far forward and will
prevent the cylinder stop from rising to lock the cylinder when
the hammer is down in the at rest position.

When the NM#3 is working properly, pulling the hammer back
to the first "click," the trigger will pivot forward (which causes
the cylinder stop to drop below the surface of the bottom
strap). This frees the cylinder to revolve.

When the hammer is drawn back to full cock, the trigger
pivots back and the cylinder stop raises up and engages the
cylinder.

If the tip of the trigger where it engages the hammer sear is
broken off, the trigger will pivot too far forward and could pre-
vent the cylinder stop to rise up when the hammer is down.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi There,Sorry, but you have the wrong end of the stick. When the hammer is down, the cylinder should be locked. Having the
rebounding hammer doesn't affect this. I only mention this because the "at rest" forward position is only a little more forward that the "loading" position.

What can affect this is a broken trigger. If the tip of the trig-
ger is broken off, the trigger will sit too far forward and will
prevent the cylinder stop from rising to lock the cylinder when
the hammer is down in the at rest position.

When the NM#3 is working properly, pulling the hammer back
to the first "click," the trigger will pivot forward (which causes
the cylinder stop to drop below the surface of the bottom
strap). This frees the cylinder to revolve.

When the hammer is drawn back to full cock, the trigger
pivots back and the cylinder stop raises up and engages the
cylinder.

If the tip of the trigger where it engages the hammer sear is
broken off, the trigger will pivot too far forward and could pre-
vent the cylinder stop to rise up when the hammer is down.


Cheers!
Webb

Webb,

Thanks for the help...Truth be told I like your version much better than mine...Ha!!-Ha!! Main point I was trying to get across to BC38 is when the Hammer's "Completely" closed before rebounding...The Cyl. should be locked in place & not be able to revolve freely!!

Thanks again for the much more detailed description of the way it "Should" be...Seems you're better at it than I am!!

 

[Chuck24]

Same Takata that makes the airbags?

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Here is a photo essay to show the stages.

(Pic-1) - Hammer at rest and cylinder stop is up,

(Pic-2) - First "click" (a.k.a. the loading notch) and cylinder stop is down.

(Pic-3) - Full cock and cylinder stop is back up.

Just to be complete, this is a NM#3 that also was sent to
Takata and Co. in Japan.


Cheers!
\Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

I will add, in addition to the above chipped trigger sear scenario, that if the hammer sear (notch) has been filed or stoned too deep the same problem will appear. Regardless of what caused the freewheeling, the cylinder should be locked with the hammer up or down. Your revolver has a problem.

 

[iby]

Thanks, but I am looking for a bit more information - not just the short version.
Can you elaborate on NO to which of my questions - or is NO your final answer?

I was responding to your question "is the seller right"
The "seller "is frequently and conveniently Not right

 

[BC38]

I will add, in addition to the above chipped trigger sear scenario, that if the hammer sear (notch) has been filed or stoned too deep the same problem will appear. Regardless of what caused the freewheeling, the cylinder should be locked with the hammer up or down. Your revolver has a problem.

....and it is probably safe to say that repair parts are unobtainium - so it is basically a historical paperweight?

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

....and it is probably safe to say that repair parts are unobtainium - so it is basically a historical paperweight?

Not necessarily. Parts are difficult to locate and may take a lot of
time and effort to find but it is possible to have the old parts re-
paired. But it will not be cheap to have them repaired. If this is
your first foray into gun collecting, this might not be the best
revolver to start your collection with.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

The only way that one won't lose their shirt on this revolver is IF the price of the revolver is low enough and the repairs can be done themselves.

 

[BC38]

The only way that one won't lose their shirt on this revolver is IF the price of the revolver is low enough and the repairs can be done themselves.

Well, I can probably get this one for around a grand, and if I could get the part(s) I'm sure I could do the repair myself. Fixing the original broken part(s) would probably take more precision tools than anything I have.

 

[mmaher94087]

Parts. Not many NM #3 parts out in the wild. Without popping the side plate, it's hard to guess what's needed. I bought (ironically) a Takata shipped NM #3 that was advertised as having a broken cylinder stop and doesn't always hold full cock. I found out a grenade went off under the side plate. The cylinder stop was broken but what ever happened internally broke the tip off the hand, broke the pivot and spring for same, chipped the hammer sear as well as the trigger sear. After all these parts were welded, I spent two days fitting the parts, three days timing the entire thing and another day heat treating the pieces. It's a labor of love and it can be done.... eventually.

 

[BC38]

Parts. Not many NM #3 parts out in the wild. Without popping the side plate, it's hard to guess what's needed. I bought (ironically) a Takata shipped NM #3 that was advertised as having a broken cylinder stop and doesn't always hold full cock. I found out a grenade went off under the side plate. The cylinder stop was broken but what ever happened internally broke the tip off the hand, broke the pivot and spring for same, chipped the hammer sear as well as the trigger sear. After all these parts were welded, I spent two days fitting the parts, three days timing the entire thing and another day heat treating the pieces. It's a labor of love and it can be done.... eventually.

LOL, I already have too many "projects" to take on something like that. Besides, spending a grand or more on a project doesn't seem like a good deal - or a good idea - in my way of thinking.