1991a1colt
Member
Wow, Ok :banghead:
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
Question for LOEs
- Thread starter Buffalohunter60
- Start date
HereSinceTheLongHunters
Member
I remember Kent State. National Guard in those days were armed with live rounds. They were ordered to fire into a crowd of college kids who were protesting the Vietnam War. 4 were killed.
-Hence Neil Young's Song: "Four Dead in Ohio" The grassy area is still hallowed ground to some.
The incident spurred the development of non-lethal crowd control.
-Hence Neil Young's Song: "Four Dead in Ohio" The grassy area is still hallowed ground to some.
The incident spurred the development of non-lethal crowd control.
Last edited:
MaximumLawman
Member
Prior to that they only used lethal crowd control?!?!! Zoinks!
OP
Buffalohunter60
US Veteran
I remember the incident well...if I recall correctly, the crowd was throwing rocks that the guardsmen (which can also be deadly) and they paniced and fired on the crowd, I can understand how that can happen. I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield and we were training for riot control when MLK was shot and we were put on alert...never had to go, but those were turbulent times. No crowd should ever throw rocks at troops trying to keep the peace...I doubt that the guard was trained in riot control. When you put the troops in danger by attacking them....you run the risk of getting hurt in the process. There were mistakes made by both sides that ended in tragidy. A rock can kill someone as well as a bullet.
CT Smith Fan
Member
I seem to remember an old story that ended with: " I looked around and my neighbors were gone, but I said nothing, and then they came for me". I love my country,we need to organize and fight for change. P.S To all who put themselves in harms way on a daily basis,thank you for your service.
Last edited:
DrDyno
US Veteran
Those of us who think that even the most patriotic LEOs will choose to disobey a direct order to confiscate are failing to consider the circumstances of those orders. They won't just come out of the blue. There will be incidents. A LEO will be shot at or, worse, shot; there will be areas of martial law declarations; there will be unscrupulous LEOs who will lie about encounters, etc. Look at what Sandy Hook caused, nationally.
For any of you truly contemplating SHTF scenarios, you would probably be well served to consider hiding some of your collection for post-confiscation protection. LEOs will do the job they are paid to do. There's no shame in that... it's just a shame their job descriptions will be altered.
And, for those LEOs who, in good faith, profess they will disobey "illegal" orders to confiscate... guess whose weapons and ammo will be confiscated next. For your own protection and that of your family, you will have no choice but to obey. Sure, you can do your job poorly but you will still have to do it.
For any of you truly contemplating SHTF scenarios, you would probably be well served to consider hiding some of your collection for post-confiscation protection. LEOs will do the job they are paid to do. There's no shame in that... it's just a shame their job descriptions will be altered.
And, for those LEOs who, in good faith, profess they will disobey "illegal" orders to confiscate... guess whose weapons and ammo will be confiscated next. For your own protection and that of your family, you will have no choice but to obey. Sure, you can do your job poorly but you will still have to do it.
Last edited:
LEOs will do the job they are paid to do. There's no shame in that
I'll repectfully totally dissagree with that
How would there be no shame violating what they are sworn to protect?
I'll repectfully totally dissagree with that
How would there be no shame violating what they are sworn to protect?
OP
Buffalohunter60
US Veteran
At least in our small town, i have faith in our LEO's. They know everyone in town and have friends and family there. Cant picture them going against their own friends and family...not to mention the rest of the town. I think mamny take their Oath seriously as do many in the military. Its not only our freedom that is at stake...its their freedom also and the freedom of all their friends and relitives.....jobs can be replaced...family can't. There is a bond in small towns that is different than the big city mentality...and we place a high value on our freedom.
DrDyno
US Veteran
Weatherby said:
Look, it's all about context. In the context of "business as usual," the 2nd Amendment can be honored without hesitation.
However... Who would argue that Sandy Hook didn't change the context of how politicians now look at the 2nd Amendment? Who would argue that police and rescue workers being shot at after Katrina didn't change the context of safety for some of the rescuers?
In 1998, Hank Earl Carr killed several Florida police officers after they apprehended him for another shooting. That event changed the context of how Florida background checks are handled by the Florida constitution. Where, before that event, the FL constitution provided for unimpeded firearm commerce between private Florida residents at Gun Shows; after that event the Florida constitution was changed by the legislature to allow Florida Counties to create their own background check laws... some now requiring background checks for private transfers at Gun Shows. The context of background checks was changed and an overwhelming number of Florida legislators voted to change the state's constitution.
So, I'm not suggesting that shame does not exist for breaking one's word; I am suggesting that when the context changes, clear lines of action become fuzzy, sometimes to the point of reversal. You can hardly "protect and serve" when you're being sniped at by random citizens (as was the case for some post-Katrina rescuers). Priorities are changed as contexts are shifted.
LEOs will "do the right thing" as they see it in the context of the moment. I believe that will be to obey orders and... I may resist them but I won't fault them for it.
Last edited:
MaximumLawman
Member
If elected legislators change the constitution or pass laws that make gun confiscation constitutional, they won't be violating their oath.
1991a1colt
Member
Maximum Lawman has made some points...Here on this forum the talk is about up holding the Constitution. Period. The issue on the bigger picture is...just what part of the Constitution and it's amendments are deemed to be up held, and which ones not....Up hold the 1'st, the 3rd, the 4th, the 5th, etc, but not the 2nd?
Who are the LEO's to pick and choose which to uphold and which ones not to?
There are a lot of issues about the 1st amendment I really don't believe in, however......They have to be allowed to express their Freedom of Speech, do they not?
The hot topic of "Gun Confiscation" ...Mass gun confiscation...I do not believe that will come to pass..IMO..Ever.
No I do not believe history will repeat itself..Not in our country.
Really, gentlemen, we may voice our conjecture here on this forum, of the "What if's".....
We may not like what we perceive to be happening by our law makers. But thus far, I have not read, heard in any form of factual information that gun confiscation is going to take place.....Restrictions, maybe.
Even as bad as the Conn. laws that were just past,restricting some types. Confiscation was not one of those laws. Nor Colorado's.
I was sworn to uphold all laws, not only those I personally thought were lawful, but some of the others I may not have believe in too.
Should a LEO come to confiscate one's guns, but can't find any, then that is another story altogether.
I can say I did personally observe many years ago in Spain, when Francisco Franco was still alive. There were still some guns hid in coal bins, and elsewhere, although no one was supposed to own or posses them.
WuzzFuzz
Who are the LEO's to pick and choose which to uphold and which ones not to?
There are a lot of issues about the 1st amendment I really don't believe in, however......They have to be allowed to express their Freedom of Speech, do they not?
The hot topic of "Gun Confiscation" ...Mass gun confiscation...I do not believe that will come to pass..IMO..Ever.
No I do not believe history will repeat itself..Not in our country.
Really, gentlemen, we may voice our conjecture here on this forum, of the "What if's".....
We may not like what we perceive to be happening by our law makers. But thus far, I have not read, heard in any form of factual information that gun confiscation is going to take place.....Restrictions, maybe.
Even as bad as the Conn. laws that were just past,restricting some types. Confiscation was not one of those laws. Nor Colorado's.
I was sworn to uphold all laws, not only those I personally thought were lawful, but some of the others I may not have believe in too.
Should a LEO come to confiscate one's guns, but can't find any, then that is another story altogether.
I can say I did personally observe many years ago in Spain, when Francisco Franco was still alive. There were still some guns hid in coal bins, and elsewhere, although no one was supposed to own or posses them.
WuzzFuzz
Bullzaye
US Veteran
Not that it has any impact on the discussion, and I may even be incorrect, but...I believe the National Guard were armed with M1 "Garands".
Tim
AZretired
Member
While I do not support or believe that more gun control laws are needed, the current trend towards "Universal Background Checks" is a long, long way from registration or confiscation!
Background checks and Mag capacity laws may pass but that's about it. Face it there are a certain type of person who goes to gun shows hoping to buy guns without a background check because they know they cannot pass one.
Background checks and Mag capacity laws may pass but that's about it. Face it there are a certain type of person who goes to gun shows hoping to buy guns without a background check because they know they cannot pass one.
Bullzaye
US Veteran
This is not true. It's already been stated by Obama and others that the only way that this proposed "Universal Background Check" could function at all is if the gov't. knows where all the guns are currently. Therefore, the UBC has to be followed by UGR..."Universal Gun Registration". After that, how long until UGC...Universal Gun Confiscation"? Look to N.Y.
Tim
OP
Buffalohunter60
US Veteran
There is no law that will prevent another sandy hook. I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of mentally disturbed people that have a high potential of using a firearm to hurt someone. If I knew someone was a threat to innocent people, I would have no problem reporting them.....I do not see how registration could prevent crime and it just opens the door to confiscation. While I do not think confiscation will ever happen...there are elected politicions that would love to see just that happen....thinking that they will now be safe (not).
While I would like to think that history will not repeat itsself here.....I bet the people of Germany thought they had a great country and what happened there was beyond their wildest dreams. I do believe it could happen here if we are not viglient. All it takes is electing the wrong man once. Look at Hitlers rise to power and see how he got there.
I love this country and many good men have died so that we may be free. It is up to the rest of us to make sure that we remain free and also protect the rights of all people. Our children can be better protected...there is no such thing as absolute safety...life is a risk and the only guarentee in life is ...death at some point. But until that time, I hope we can all live a free and happy life.
While I would like to think that history will not repeat itsself here.....I bet the people of Germany thought they had a great country and what happened there was beyond their wildest dreams. I do believe it could happen here if we are not viglient. All it takes is electing the wrong man once. Look at Hitlers rise to power and see how he got there.
I love this country and many good men have died so that we may be free. It is up to the rest of us to make sure that we remain free and also protect the rights of all people. Our children can be better protected...there is no such thing as absolute safety...life is a risk and the only guarentee in life is ...death at some point. But until that time, I hope we can all live a free and happy life.
1991a1colt
Member
Has anyone noticed that the left is turning on themselves because all the background check and registration legislation talk. Even the ACLU 
eek: )is getting into position to fight any type of national registry because it is a privacy issue. This is going to turn into a major ordeal and the courts are going get all involved. From the latest news, the assault style weapon and magazine ban has been dropped due to the left would never get it through due to the republican and blue dog dems siding on the issue. Now we have to worry about a background check law being passed and a national registry. That is going to turn the liberal world on its head and will be fun to watch.
The next thing that will be fun to watch is all the states passing all the laws they think will help control violence. I feel sorry for some of you guys that live in some (emotional), states.
(Note: how the heck can someone elect people (nutball), that makes 32oz soft drinks and anything more then a seven round magazine illegal and then when his office gets blasted by all the hate mail, changes and said well don't load more then 7 rounds in your hi caps. Who the hell is going to enforce that junk laws. Hell I would not even call that laws, that is a big pile of steamy dodo. Where has the common sense in this county gone, and who elects these morons).
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
eek: )is getting into position to fight any type of national registry because it is a privacy issue. This is going to turn into a major ordeal and the courts are going get all involved. From the latest news, the assault style weapon and magazine ban has been dropped due to the left would never get it through due to the republican and blue dog dems siding on the issue. Now we have to worry about a background check law being passed and a national registry. That is going to turn the liberal world on its head and will be fun to watch. The next thing that will be fun to watch is all the states passing all the laws they think will help control violence. I feel sorry for some of you guys that live in some (emotional), states.
(Note: how the heck can someone elect people (nutball), that makes 32oz soft drinks and anything more then a seven round magazine illegal and then when his office gets blasted by all the hate mail, changes and said well don't load more then 7 rounds in your hi caps. Who the hell is going to enforce that junk laws. Hell I would not even call that laws, that is a big pile of steamy dodo. Where has the common sense in this county gone, and who elects these morons).
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
MaximumLawman
Member
Has anyone noticed that the left is turning on themselves because all the background check and registration legislation talk. Even the ACLU
The next thing that will be fun to watch is all the states passing all the laws they think will help control violence. I feel sorry for some of you guys that live in some (emotional), states.
(Note: how the heck can someone elect people (nutball), that makes 32oz soft drinks and anything more then a seven round magazine illegal. Where has the common sense in this county gone)...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
It's interesting because as of now, the feds (maybe even locals) aren't even allowed to collect "open source" information on people without a warrant. This concept is reminiscent of the "Red File" days.
1991a1colt
Member
Can you enlighten me on this open source deal??? I thought if it was open to public view no warrant would be needed.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
JeffF64
US Veteran
While I would agree nothing is ever 100%, I could think of several things that would make more sense than what they are proposing right now. How about, doing away with gun free zones, we all know just the possibility of someone carrying could be a deterrent. What about administrators or teachers being trained and carry, doesn't have to be handgun or rifle, just a few shotguns. Or even better what about armed security, ex-military or Leo or even actual police forces. As for money to pay for this what about not giving other Countries our tax dollars til everything in our Country is taken care of first.
While I am no politician, these will probably never come to light as most people only see taking away, banning etc a choice. They really think that will stop the criminals and these other crazy people that are doing the mass shootings. Heck not saying I would do this but tactically it makes brilliant sense to attack and shoot up a gun free zone verses a place that's not, you would be the only person with gun, wouldn't have to worry about someone shooting back, the police would not get there for 5-10 minutes or longer
