Question on buggered side plate screws

mojave30cal

mojave30cal

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I like early S&W M&P's as well as the early post war revolvers
and some of the antiques, like the Model 1 and the early
Safety Hammerless 38 S&W break tops. I like the fit and
finish, craftsmanship and attention to detail.

However, I am anal and have a problem with side plate screws
being buggered on a nice piece. My question deals with how
these messed up screws affect the value on scarce or rare
S&W guns. I avoid these guns, but if it is scarce how do you
deduct from the asking price? I also have a concern when it
comes time to move the gun along to a new owner( condition,
condition, condition).

Is there a formula to determine a scarce gun's value when
the side plate screws are messed up?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)
 
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I don't know about a "formula" for deducting value, but I sure agree with you about not liking buggered screws.

My Rule # 1 response when I see buggered screws is to pass on the sale.

I did recently buy a nickel Chiefs Special with a buggered yoke/cylinder screw. There were two reasons I bought it. It was an oddball I didn't have in my herd, and more importantly, I had a spare screw that was not buggered (rare for me since I have a short stash of spare parts).
 
mojave30cal said:
I like early S&W M&P's as well as the early post war revolvers
and some of the antiques, like the Model 1 and the early
Safety Hammerless 38 S&W break tops. I like the fit and
finish, craftsmanship and attention to detail.

However, I am anal and have a problem with side plate screws
being buggered on a nice piece. My question deals with how
these messed up screws affect the value on scarce or rare
S&W guns. I avoid these guns, but if it is scarce how do you
deduct from the asking price? I also have a concern when it
comes to move the gun along to a new owner( condition,
condition, condition).

Is there a formula to determine a scarce gun's value when
the side plate screws are messed up?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Click to expand...


It usually does not stop me from a gun I really want, but I have gotten pretty good at debuggering screw heads and then cold bluing them back into condition.


It's the buggered screw with a giant scratch from the bugger right onto the frame I can't stand!
 
Older guns screws may easily be "rehabbed" with a fine file to file down the dome of the screw head. and a small Swiss file to clean up the edges and slot. Several layers of good cold blue to match the guns bluing, and a good buffing. Finish with a little Renaissance Wax to protect. Once you have done a few, you will put the care into it and can hardly be noticed.
 
how to fix buggered up screw heads ? i use a small collet lathe and a very thin file
 
It's not just the buggered screw heads. If you butchered the screw heads, what else did you do inside the gun, and why were you even in there?

I've rarely seen a side plate removed by someone who buggered the screws that was properly reinstalled. It will really show where the 4th screw would go on a 5 screw revolver.

Deal breaker with me.
 
Unless its been cross threaded I usually start a screw rescue by placing it in a jeweler's block* secured in the vice. Then use a 4oz ball peen with a polished face** to tap the displaced metal back down as much as possible. Then a hacksaw blade can act as a single-row file to clean up the slot. Gently.

Next chuck the screw into a drill chuck and, depending on it's size and degree of buggerdness, spin it against a third cut file and/or what ever grit number you prefer.

Finally, finish to match the gun. I use Brownell's Oxpho Blue cold blue if a blued gun, or use an acid etch if it needs to look like its as old as the gun.

*[ame]https://www.amazon.com/HEXAGONAL-RIVETING-JEWELRY-WATCHMAKERS-CRAFTSMAN/dp/B00AWQKRZK/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=jeweler%27s+block&qid=1638583569&sr=8-6[/ame]

**if the hammer face has divots or dents these will be transferred to the work piece.

This is all derived from watching Mark Novak's YouTube channel, Anvil Gunsmithing. If you're not acquainted, you are seriously missing out! The guy works on some really exotic stuff, and is a teacher at heart. Yeah, I'm a fan boy. Once you watch him you can't help it.
Mark Novak - YouTube
 
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I walk away from guns with buggered screw heads. They're a sign that a gun may have bigger problems. I know for a fact that I have passed on some really nice guns because of a relatively minor issue, but those are the breaks.
 
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Unless the screws are really bad, they can usually be brought back to life to the point where most people will never know they were buggered in the first place.

A selection of different shaped needle files, a few Arkansas Stones, emery paper in different grits, and a Dremel with a flannel wheel and some Flitz is usually all that is needed. I'd estimate about a 98% savior rate. Once in a while I do come across a screw that is just beyond trying - but that is the exception.
 
Remove the screw , wrap the threads to protect them and set screw in vice . Tap the disturbed metal back in place carefully with a small ball peen hammer . Recut the slot with a safe file / slot cutting file ... Brownell's sells them just for recutting screw slots .
Heat blue or cold blue and re-install .
It is acutually very easy to correct those buggered up screws ( it bothers me too) you don,t need any power tools and if you have a set of Swiss Needle Files you can cut the slot with one of them .
You want push the metal back in place , even up the sides & not make it any deeper. Polish with Wet-R-Dry paper ...by hand .
Gary
 
BTW as long as we are talking "screws" let me post how to make a "Nickel" or "Stainless" screw out of a Blued one when there are none available. This actually happened to me several times and I just figured it out - works excellent!!

If you need a screw and the only ones available are Blued ones, all you need to do is to polish off the bluing! If you are matching a Stainless gun, just don't polish to a mirror finish and use Scotchbrite as a final finish. If you are matching Nickel or Chrome, polish with a Dremel (or by hand) and use Flitz and a Flannel wheel or cloth. Polish to appropriate finish, chrome will be brighter, and no one will even know - lol. BTW, if you are concerned about the raw steel screw rusting, don't be. Highly polished metal is very resistant to rust - I have never had an issue! Most times when I look at theh guns that have had screws made like this, you forget yourself.

This method works like a charm and has bailed me out several times when I just could not find a Nickel or Stainless screw for a certain gun no matter how hard I looked.
 
If I didn't buy a gun 'cause it had buggered screws,,I wouldn't have any guns.

They are relatively easy to fix. Rarely is one not saveable with simple hand tools.
I used to tell people that I could make a living just fixing buggered screws on nice guns.
People just seem to have to try and tighten them up for some reason or at least see if they are tight. That's when they twist the slot out of shape most often.
Disassembly/reassembly with the one-size-fits-all screw driver is the other damage maker.

If the head is really gone, then I lathe the head off to make it look like a nail,,just a thin flat head.
Then hard solder a piece of faced off round steel stock to that surface.
Cut of off with length to spare.
Then turn the OD to match the old screw.
Cut a rough slot on the high head w/a HackSaw.
Turn it into the work and mark the surface height and 12-6 positions.
Take it out, re-mark 12 & 6 below the surface position and trim most of the excess height off.
Then cut the final slot using the new 12&6 position.
I use a Jewelers Saw with a course blade,,.025 thick for the slots.
I back the slot up from the 12 &6 positions to give it an extra few degrees to tighten up as they usually do.
File the head to contour of the part or file it dome shape.

Here's a couple of screws from something I don't remember what they went to.
Not too bad but the slots were opened up from too big of a screw driver blade(s) being used.
Slots peened back into shape. Then slots recut with saw.
Slot edges touched up w/very file (worn out) backside safe-edge needle file)
Heads hand filed back to dome shape and then polished. This all done with screw in engraving vise.
Then the heads engraved.
I think I blued these afterwards.

..Engraving vise is a home-made monster I built about 40yrs ago. It's taken a few hits over the yrs. I use it for both gunsmithing and engraving work.






 
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If the right hand sideplate looks like it still has a nice tight fit, and there are no other obvious signs of abuse, I will take a chance on buying a revolver with some buggered up screw heads. As a majority of Forum members have stated, it's easy to repair buggered screws and make them look new, and it's actually a fun DIY project. Of course, you can also buy new screws to replace yours. Just my 2 cents.
 
Buggered screws tell me that someone who does not know much has been inside the gun. I pass on guns with buggered screws for this reason.
 
Great thread and detailed suggestions thanks all. If I really want a gun and the rest of it passes "muster" Buggered screw heads/slots don't deter a purchase.

My solution is simple. Using a proper hollow ground screwdriver, I back the offending screw out 2-3 turns. Then using a DIAMOND stone to "dress" the burrs that using in improper screwdriver raised. Take your time, remember that often "less is more." Is this a perfect job, no. but it works for an owner, non-collector.
 
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