Hotcoley
Member
Looking to sell a few of my long guns. What is the proper procedure for this? Should I get a receipt? or sign anything? Selling my 15-22 for $350? Any input appreciated. Thanks.
Question on face to face sale
- Thread starter Hotcoley
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billdeserthills
Member
Really depends on the state laws, where do you live?
For instance here in Arizona, a legal private sale of a long gun, you need to see an Arizona State issued ID or Drivers license & the person must be at least 18 years old.
For instance here in Arizona, a legal private sale of a long gun, you need to see an Arizona State issued ID or Drivers license & the person must be at least 18 years old.
OP
Hotcoley
Member
I live in PA and of course the person would be at least 18 years old.
If my name is on any weapon I sell, I get the buyers info, just in case. 
Looking to sell a few of my long guns. What is the proper procedure for this? Should I get a receipt? or sign anything? Selling my 15-22 for $350? Any input appreciated. Thanks.
You can get a receipt if you like, but you do want to be absolutely certain that the buyer is a resident of your state. Otherwise it will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyers state.
TennTony
US Veteran
I normally give a signed bill of sale showing gun model & S/N and my current address. I also get a signed receipt with the buyer's info. I get the receipt in case the authorities ever want to know what happened to the gun. It is proof of who purchased the gun from me. I put my driver's license number on the documents and require the same from the buyer.
Been there, done that. I had to go down to the Memphis PD about twenty years ago to explain why a pistol (Glock M19) that I purchased new on a 4473, was found at the scene of a robbery/shooting. They were not real happy when I showed up with my lawyer. They became very interested in my level of documentation when I told them I had a copy of the original 4473 filled out at the gun store and the secondary buyers info as to who, when and where the pistol was sold, included his DL#, address, city, state, zip, phone #, make, model, serial # and signature showing receipt of the pistol. Never heard another word from them on this, so I guess they found their secondary buyer/shooter, or ran into a brick wall???
Class III
Class III
beemerphile
Member
There is (as yet) no legal requirement to retain documentation of a FTF sale. I don't document any transaction where documentation is not required and I destroy required documents as soon as it is legal to do so. If they change the law I will follow it. I ask to see a DL to assure in-state and of age. If the authorities show up and want to know where it went, I will give them the Bill or Hillary Clinton response... "I don't remember."
They will need to prove that I sold it to the perp and that he was either under age or out of state. The fact that he turned criminal later is not my responsibility or my liability.
They will need to prove that I sold it to the perp and that he was either under age or out of state. The fact that he turned criminal later is not my responsibility or my liability.
That's why I document the sale, to cover MY butt. If the buyer wants to do the sale "under the table", he can go look somewhere else.
I have the buyer meet me at my local shop and the owner logs the firearm into the books for $20 (I pay it) and deal is made between myself and the buyer. About the same as an internet deal.
Peace of mind
witnesses
legal
proper (in my opinion)
safe
20 bucks is well worth the time and effort for me. I don't have to feel like a crock or to constantly look over my shoulder.
I long time ago and a less mature time, I sold an AR 180 FTF to a guy. We agreed to meet at a parking lot in front of a well known store at the time. I brought a second (sitting in a car fifty feet away or so.) After deal went down, my guy said he spotted the buyers pal sitting in a car watching the deal too. After that, I stopped doing the FTF sales like that and went to the local gun shop to do FTF deals.
Guns, money, and the potential that not everyone is a "good" guy; play it safe and don't take a chance.
Peace of mind
witnesses
legal
proper (in my opinion)
safe
20 bucks is well worth the time and effort for me. I don't have to feel like a crock or to constantly look over my shoulder.
I long time ago and a less mature time, I sold an AR 180 FTF to a guy. We agreed to meet at a parking lot in front of a well known store at the time. I brought a second (sitting in a car fifty feet away or so.) After deal went down, my guy said he spotted the buyers pal sitting in a car watching the deal too. After that, I stopped doing the FTF sales like that and went to the local gun shop to do FTF deals.
Guns, money, and the potential that not everyone is a "good" guy; play it safe and don't take a chance.
billdeserthills
Member
It is interesting to me what j bouwens said about paying his local dealer $20.00 to "Log the gun in his book" in Arizona there is no such thing and I have had several out of state people wanting me to do that for them. I had to tell all of them that since Arizona is a Free Gun state this option does not exist here. funny how unhappy refusing to register guns can make out of staters.
m1gunner
US Veteran
This is correct for Ga. Exactly how I bought my last handgun, from a LEO (unknown to me) no less.
Hear, Hear.
I will sometimes ask to see a DL, but not often. I am surprised at the people who don't know the law on this kind of deal. Usually, my deals are with people either on this forum, or more likely, one of the GA based sites. I usually glance at their car tag. I bought a Model 60 from a Georgia Revenue officer a year or so back. We met at, of all places, a peach packing shed. I asked him if he wanted to see a DL. He said I looked honest.
You mean to say you have the buyer fill out a 4473? I would guess you have a good many people balk at that. I probably would. I will volunteer to show a DL and my GWL, but I don't want anyone "taking down" any of the information. That could be dangerous. I have never felt uncomfortable when doing a meet. Maybe I'm naive. It could be that I usually am only dealing in sporting guns or S&W revolvers. A ftf deal with someone I have no reason to believe isn't eligible to own/buy a firearm in Georgia is just as "legal" and "proper" as adding a bunch of hoops for the buyer and seller to jump through.
billdeserthills
Member
I bought private sale only guns for the 15 years nics/fbi delayed my every purchase & I agree with redlevel. Why should I pay the same amount or more for a used gun & then fill out paperwork? Screw That.
Not filling out paperwork & keeping my privacy is the real beauty of The Private Sale- Otherwise I'm getting a new gun.
Not filling out paperwork & keeping my privacy is the real beauty of The Private Sale- Otherwise I'm getting a new gun.
jeffrey
Member
Strictly a matter of state law. In New Mexico a private sale is a private sale, unless one of the parties has an FFL, and then it isn't.
I'm back, resting up from shoveling and chopping the friggin ice.
No 4473, My shop owner allows the two of us come in the store, (myself and buyer) look over the gun, shoot the bull for a while, he logs the firearm into" his" firearm log book, and allows us to complete the deal. I will normally go outside and exchange the gun for the money and the deal is done. I find myself throwing my guy a twenty to fund his Wild Turkey fetish. No one has backed out meeting me in this fashion. If anyone did, I would/will not sell to them. The firearm's serial number and brand etc. goes in a book, no buyers name, just mine. I ask for the sellers name and such during the contact phase and have a bill of sale ready to go.(this is seen and kept by me only) This procedure safeguards me and gives me peace of mind.
P.S.
About five years ago and local fellow bought 9 long guns from a "neighbor". After the deal was done a traffic stop a month or two later (fellow was just going to the range for some shooting fun) found that two of the newest guns in the collection were stolen. After almost 20,00 dollars and 18 months in court, All guns of this collector were taken from him and he to this day does not have all of his guns back. He spent 36 month in jail/home arrest for accepting stolen property and other charges I'm sure. I can't remember every detail from that case but I like the idea of setting up an extra hoop or two if it protects me.
Nothing is perfect and a twenty on my part is not the equivalent to buying a used gun for a new price as another poster mentioned.
Anyway, to each their own. No offense to anyone, My experiences and a few unfortunate situations have molded who I am and what I feel comfortable doing when it comes to firearms.
I thought transactions of long guns can be interstate if legal in both states.
A non FFL can buy a long gun from an FFL ( FTF) in another state (and take possession of it there) if there are no laws in either state that are violated by such a transfer. (Not allowed with handguns)
Interstate transactions between two non FFL's still have to go thru an FFL in the buyers state.
Interstate transactions between two non FFL's still have to go thru an FFL in the buyers state.
RufusG
Member
Looking to sell a few of my long guns. What is the proper procedure for this? Should I get a receipt? or sign anything? Selling my 15-22 for $350? Any input appreciated. Thanks.
The details of the relevant laws have been covered in other posts, so I'll chime in and add that to me the most important part of the FTF deal is finding a customer.
Here in AZ we have an excellent local board where you can post ads and also get a feel for and vett your potential buyer. I don't know where you are in PA but the pafoa.org board is a pretty good resource back that way.
I have done dozens of FTF deals buy, sell, and trade, and never had a problem. If the other party wants to sign a bill of sale that's fine with me but my preference is to forget his face and name before I leave the parking lot.
