Questions regarding a mill and a lathe....

[RightWinger]

Just curious as to what I need to look for or avoid when buying each of these. I have a little Christmas money saved up and I plan to buy either a mill or a lathe. I have no experience or no idea what to look for. I would want the lathe mainly for turning threads on barrels. I only would use these as a hobby and not anything too serious, so I don't need anything super huge or expensive. I was hoping for the bench models that can be screwed down to my welding table. Anyone had any luck with the cheaper harbor freight models such as Grizzly? I know mentioning Harbor Freight is going to strike a nerve with a few tool and die makers but hey....I want to learn some of these skills and I don't have a huge amount of money to get into it with. any advice would be appreciated!

Eric

 

[flop-shank]

Beware of Grizzly!

I have one of those Grizzly mills that sit on a stand. I'm not terribly impressed. It didn't come with the coolant pump that it stated. The electronics are cheezy and the belts that came with the machine didn't even fit. There isn't enough travel in the Z axis to use standard length counterbore's with a small workpiece in the vice. I had to modify the gib for the knee that slides on the base of the machine (Z axis) to make it work right. There were other problems as well. That said, the basic castings are good and, on my machine at least, very square. It took work to get the machine right, but It's highly accurate. I've more than once made a cut that was within two ten thousandths of an inch of what I wanted.

FWIW, there must be thousands of mills and lathes available in Michigan and very cheap. There might be something used that's much better available if you can somehow buy and ship it at a reasonable price.

 

[john traveler]

I would suggest getting the lathe first, as you are more likely to have lots of use for it before the milling machine.

When you mention "Harbor Freight" and "Grizzly" in the same sentence you are confusing an established name brand imported machine tool supplier with the outfit that delivers mechandise on the very bottom of the quality control list. HF is often regarded as unserviceable, even new out of the crate. Grizzly, on the other hand, has an established dealer/distributor network that also sells imported machinery, but it is an order of magniture better than the HF stuff.

Have you considered a used American-made lathe? In the current economic climate, good, used, machine deals are easy to find. The trick is knowing what to look for, or even better, having an experienced machinist friend available to evaluate the prospective purchase. I would recommend reading up on the subject before buying anything. Do a websearch for "lathes", "used metal working machinery", etc. There are a number of used machinery websites that give useful tips and inspection pointers for you to follow.

What city are you in? As for specific models to look at, I'd suggest tracking your local Craigslist tools for sale. I've found a number of very good buys, and the occasional bargain lathe for sale. Critical to your purchase is the availability of needed accessories: tool posts, tool holders, steady rest, follower rest, centers, cutters, tailstock, and so on. With some luck, you can find the entire package available for sale. Ideally, you would find a retired/retiring gunsmith that wants to sell his entire tooled lathe as a package.

Let us know how you make out.

John

 

[leas327]

I would definatly look for used machines before buying new import stuff. Look on e-bay and call your local machine dealers. Most machine dealers are flooded with old Bridgport mills and South Bend lathes. Have someone who is knowledgable in these help find one that is good and tight. Clausing stuff works fine for hobbist work. Most of the old vertical knee mills and small manual lathes have been phased out job shops because of CNC. Try and find machines with Digital Read Outs and a lathe with a quick change tool post.
Also most machine dealers will sell you machines on a lease. They work out a price and delivery and set it up on a 5 year payment plan with an option to buy at the end of the lease for $.01

 

[billdeserthills]

I currently have an older model ENCO Lathe and milling machine. I am very happy with my ENCO equipment and I have tried five other lathes, starting with a Harbour Freight model. Nothing like a lathe for lining up screw threads correctly.

 

[Aussie44]

It all depends how you are going to cut the threads,Are you going to use a spider or are you going to do it between centers.Dont forget you have to dial in your zero from the bore.If you are going to use a spider you dont need a big lathe.Milling machine also depends what you are going to mill,The first time you try to mill a slide and the mill craps itself you will know what I mean( It has to have min 1-1/2 to 2 HP motor).Last of all your tooling is going to cost you more than what the machines cost.If you use HSS it's cheaper but you need carbide for many of the gun frames,slides and when you thread barrels.


Ken

 

[scha]

I agree that an older US made lathe or mill would be a better choice than a new light weight model such as those available from Harbor Freight or Grizzly. I have been to the Grizzly showcase in Springfield, MO and they have lots of models. Their heavy duty models are good machines, but these are large and quite costly. The smaller cheaper units, however, are probably not the best choice for work on guns.

Machine tools work best when they are heavy and you have good sharp high quality tooling.

I have a 1943 vintage Sheldon lathe that is a good tight machine, but cutting high quality threads on gun barrels requires a high skill level. In my opinion, any small bench top lathe you could bolt to a welding table would not be a good choice for firearm work. I suggest you find someone to help you learn the best practices for machining and then do lots of practice before you work on firearms. Home machining and guns are both great hobbies.

Steve

 

[hayseed]

For your perusal:

Smithy ::: Welcome

 

[Marvin S]

Just do LOTS of research before you buy. Go to practicalmachinist.com and learn before you buy. Lots of wise advise already given. My home lathe is a 14X46 clausing running off a westinghouse VFD. Also try lathes.com I beleive it is. Its a web site out of England, Tony runs it if memory serves me.

 

[Smith&Winchester]

....just my two cents....anything made in ch*na does only ONE thing fairly well...and that is to LOOK like what it is supposed to be. My advice is to do some research on places that buy closed factory inventories of tools and tooling, and buy a used American made machine. Unfortunately there are lots of closed American factories feeding this market.

 

[jrm53]

The Grizzley lathes are pretty nice, you need a large bore hole thru the head stock at least 1.375 also you need a thread dial on the lathe. Most used American lathes you will find for sale has a smaller thru hole. Jeff

 

[Troystat]

If you have a local community collage with a machine shop program you might get some really good help there from the instructors, they might also be able to steer you to some good used mills and lathes.

Troy

 

[Big Cholla]

Beginning Machinist Recommendations

You need to examine your naval for a while and decide upfront how far you intend to take this 'metal shaping' hobby. IF you are determined to get good at it buy quality right from the start. Cheap metal cutting machines can be so discouraging in results that they ruin your best intentions.

Remember the names 'Clausing and Bridgeport'. Great deals are available in any of the depressed manufacturing areas like Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, So. California and Texas. Be willing to travel and haul a heavy weight back home to get the best deal on a lathe or mill. There are some very good lathes available from Brazil. I have forgotten the name.

If you want to do barrel work get a three jaw "Buck" chuck for your lathe. You will wish you had after working with the typical four jaw chuck for a few major jobs. With a little practice you can zero out a Buck Chuck in just a few minutes and it will stay there for the whole job.

Twenty years ago I spent $4k on a lathe. I have now spent that much on tooling for it. A few years later I spent $4 on a mill. I have now spent about $6k on tooling for it. Your tooling will determine on what jobs you can do and will determine the quality of that work assuming you learn how to use everything to its max.

Finally stay away from "Smithy". IMHO, even if you are a total beginner after about a week of making chips your ability will exceed what you can do with repeatable precision using a smithy. Find a voc-ed school or a community college to take a mill and a lathe course for some hands on experience.

Finally, finally I recommend an older belt driven lathe as it is VERY expensive to hit the start switch on a gear-head lathe while it is locked up in the back gears after a change of the chuck. Don't ask me how I know! :-( .............. Big Cholla

 

[Big Cholla]

rightwinger: I just reread your initial post. Just maybe you should be looking at "Jet". They have their machines made in Taiwan and China, but with their Quality Control inspectors standing right there. Jet has a nice 14x40 that bolts down to their stand or your stand. I personally know that one of the best known "benchrest" quality gunsmiths in the USA uses a Jet 14x40 bolted down to a heavy duty wood table of his making for all his barrel work. He uses a Buck Chuck. .... Big Cholla

 

[beemerphile]

It's a buyer's market for machine tools. Whatever you were going to spend for a new Chinese machine will buy an older better machine with a reputation. I just bought a Monarch 10ee lathe for $2,000 which was running production when I bought it. It had been converted to a single phase DC drive and the tolerances were very good. The seller threw in a lot of tooling, a 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck and a face plate. Same opportunity exists with a milling machine. I have looked at and bid on lots of them but haven't come on the right one yet at the right price. Don't get in a hurry.

 

[2152hq]

I use a small Jet lathe now (9x20) and am satisfied with it. Have had it for almost 15 years with no problems. I don't do any bbl work anymore so the need for a larger machine isn't there,,, nor is the room. I used to have a large Cincy that I bought used from Bausch & Lomb locally many many years ago when they sold off alot of their equiptment. It was a good machine and came w/alot of tooling/accessorys. Old but well taken care of by the old school machinists.

A small Jet mill/drill also and I'm all set for the little jobs I do now. An old Cincy 'Catarac' verticle bench knee mill gets some work. Though it's small I find it useful to set up for occasional runs. It's pulled apart at present for new bearings. It was free 10yrs ago, so I don't mind putting some time and $ into it.

Do lots of homework and decide what type of work you are going to perform. Buy a machine that will meet the need and better yet excede the limit a bit.

Older machines can be an excellent buy but they can also be a true headache. Worn ways, parts and bearings can cost big time. The repair and rebuild time will most likely be lengthy if you DIY. It's not unusual for the new owner to loose interest in the machine before the rebuild is complete. If you're unsure, bring someone along that knows about them.

 

[dant]

Yessir, I agree ,check around and find a nice used one, we had an Atlas lathe ,WWII vintage, was 'cheap", we did the hauling and it did wonders....my gunsmith took it with him and still uses it........
do your homework.............most of that power equipment is for "production" use, and in the scheme of things, the lathe first, more useful, and then the 'mill'..................only thing we kept was a drill press ,with a compound table and does all we need it to do, BUT you say YOU want to cut threads...you answered your own question.
We have yet to find , or "see" any of them old Jets, and this new "stuff" that runs "true"............................as said above, they "look good".........
NOT a one of the machinists I have ever worked with would hit a dog in the butt with one of them................but I'd bet there are LOTS of stories out there.