Racking the slide?

[RicT]

I have a question about racking the slide.

If you watch this video from YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNjcubxfQA

you see Todd Jarrett using what looks like just two fingers to rack the slide on his pistol from underneath (at about the 30 second mark)...it's hard to describe, but if you watch him, it seems to take almost no effort to jack a round into the chamber. I've seen him do the same thing in several other videos, too.

Now, I'm trying to get my wife into shooting her S&W 3904, but she's having trouble racking the slide, and that's making her nervous & reluctant to shoot...if I could get her slide to move that effortlessly, I think that would make a big difference.

So, does his pistol have a much "lighter" recoil spring to allow that? Or is it some other part that's been modified?

Is there any potential problem with putting a lighter recoil spring into the 3904? In other words, will it make other parts like the slide or frame wear out faster?

 

[X-RingDistroyer]

I'll answer the first part. Yes, on most competition guns the spings are less so you can rack the slide like a pump shotgun from underneath. The bullets used are very light target loads in race guns or bulls eye type. For a self defense gun or duty gun the factory springs are too strong for most people to even take the slide out of battery this way. Unless you are going to make a competition gun for targets only I'd stick to factory strength springs.

Someone else can explain the wear and tear better than I can for the second part.

My two cents.

 

[cshoff]

If you look at the slide design on the Para pistols that TJ uses, you will see that they have incorporated additional serrations into the front portion of the slide:

Without those serrations, it would be difficult to perform the slide-racking procedure from the front of the firearm. What you see TJ doing there is a procedure that comes from thousands of repetitions with those guns. Even if he is using a slightly reduced tension recoil spring, I doubt it is significant enough to make that procedure "easy" for someone with weaker hands.

I try to teach students to use the over-hand technique for racking the slide versus the traditional "sling-shot" technique that so many use. Especially for someone with weaker hands. If you will re-watch the video, you will see TJ perform what I am talking about at the 5 second mark. That technique requires much less hand strength as it uses all four fingers and the palm of the hand to manipulate the slide.

Edit to add: If you will watch Clint Smith in this video, you will see the over-hand technique that I am talking about. Notice that his thumb never touches the slide as he "racks" it to the rear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug

 

[Big Foot]

If you notice in the very first part of the video, he goes over the top. I believe he was just illustrating a rack with the two fingers but not in the instructional sense. I personally don't rack that way and don't know of any that do: I like my fingers too much...
I didn't have the sound on, but IIRC; Todd uses a 38 Super with all the "bells & whistles", and a two-finger rack on his pistol wouldn't be too much of an effort...

 

[KurtC]

Ditto on all of the above. I believe he racked the slide that way simply so that the camera would have an unobstructed view of the chamber. He doesn't do it that way when actually shooting.

Lighter springs are used for the light target loads that are popular in competition. The 4506 used to come with two recoil springs, one for carry and one for target shooting.

If using a spring in your 3904 that was that light, you would certainly have to use weak loads (or some sort of buffer), to prevent the slide from battering the frame.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
Possibly a Browning BDA .380 or Beretta that has the tip up barrel to load the first round into the chamber?
Have you considered a Revolver for Your Wife?
A Model 10 DAO?
Jimmy

 

[OKFC05]

Some comments:
First, in shaking shaking hands with Todd Jarret or any of the several master shooters I have met, the first thing I noticed was their exceptional hand strength. He does not have to use a special lightened spring to do any of the reloads he demonstrated. In fact, he makes a point of using essentially stock Paraord guns.

Second, I have a couple of Paraord 1911 style pistols, and they are very smooth operating. My TAC FIVE 9mm runs a 12# ISMI spring and is very slick.

Third, my 12-year-old grandaughter can operate the slide on her daddy's Glock or my 1911. However, I run into many grown women in my NRA classes that cannot operate the slide on any semi-auto, sometimes because they flat DON'T WANT TO. For the ones that really want to learn, I usually can teach them a power technique in one class and have them shooting a SIGMA. For about half the women in my beginner classes, they give hubby back his semi-auto and go buy a revolver.
The "it's gotta be a semi-auto" attitude is often more of a guy thing.

 

[RicT]

Wow! Lots of good info from everyone...let me see if I can reply to the replies.

This would all be for "home defense" for when my wife is alone, not for competition or recreational shooting. She's 66 years old, and grew up in a "guns are evil" environment, and would not even be around when I was cleaning my guns, never mind shooting them.

Although I tried to discuss her learning about guns as a part of home defense, she would not consider it...until recently. Several things went into changing her mind, but I won't go into that now.

We had several sessions at home of her just holding the a .22 pistol (Buckmark), and a S&W model 10. We went over the safety rules, the basics of the proper grip & sight picture, the process of loading/unloading the M10 (with snap caps), and what she could expect when she fired a gun.

At the range, we did start my wife off with firing the Buckmark. She didn't have to load the mag or rack the slide; I did all that for her, so she could just get the feel of firing a gun and get over her fear of guns. We proceeded VERY slowly, and after the first few minutes of nearly immobilizing panic, she got more comfortable with the gun. By the time we left, she was hitting the target fairly well (and grinning from ear to ear).

After more sessions at home loading/unloading the M10, we went back to the range to fire it. She said it wasn't as bad as she expected from the noise, but the grip was uncomfortable for her (I find it uncomfortable myself). I was hoping that the revolver would be good for her, since I wanted something for her to basically "point & shoot" in a defensive situation. But it didn't seem like the M10 was the one for her; too bad, since it was an inherited gun, so it didn't cost me anything.

At another range session, she tried my S&W Model 59 (with me loading and chambering 1st round still), and she liked it, but the grip was too wide for her. I thought, "Now we're onto something", and since I was looking at getting a newer S&W semi anyway, I picked up a 3904 "for her" (although I like shooting it myself). She likes the grip much better than either the M10 or my 59, but working the slide frustrates her.

So, that's where we are now...I thought that the 3904 would be "the one" for her, but she's uncomfortable with racking the slide; then I saw that video I mentioned, and saw Todd Jarrett rack the slide with two fingers nearly effortlessly, and I was hoping that was the answer. Not that I wanted her to do this with two fingers or from underneath, but the ease of it just appealed to me.

I'm going to see if more practice (with snap caps) helps with her working the slide, but I'll also check out other revolvers...sounds like one of our sessions at the range might be to rent several of the revolvers they have, so she can check them out for fit. I'm not locked into semiautos for her because of any "guy thing" or displaced macho; I just want the best fit for my "girl".

RicT

 

[shovelwrench]

Why don't you consider getting her a gun that is safe with one in the hole? Da/Sa, or a 1911, throw the safety off and its live.

No racking involved, get her used to shooting it with some light target loads. Put full power loads in it when its "in the nightstand". Thats what I do with my girl. She handles the light loads fine, if she ever pulls it from the nightstand, chances are she won't even notice the difference (adrenaline, stress, fear).

 

[Spotteddog]

Wheel gun.
K,L or N frame 4" barrel in .357 and run .38 +P's out of it.
K frame 6 shots
L frame 7 shots
N frame 8 shots

 

[growr]

Having ran across this same problem many times in over twenty years of being an instructor, I usually have them grasp the slide firmly with their support hand (left hand if they are right handed) and hold it stationary. Then have them (her) push out with her right hand on the grip of the frame. Too many try to hold the frame stationary and "rack" the slide. Even very arthritic people are able to use this effectively. When using this you are using the strongest portion of you to do the "work"...pushing the frame/grip forward. Try this yourself a number of times and then go back to holding the frame/grip and " racking" the slide. You will see what I mean on this.
Let us know how it turns out. She might just go back to liking your 3904!
Randy

 

[RicT]

Having ran across this same problem many times in over twenty years of being an instructor, I usually have them grasp the slide firmly with their support hand (left hand if they are right handed) and hold it stationary. Then have them (her) push out with her right hand on the grip of the frame. Too many try to hold the frame stationary and "rack" the slide. Even very arthritic people are able to use this effectively. When using this you are using the strongest portion of you to do the "work"...pushing the frame/grip forward. Try this yourself a number of times and then go back to holding the frame/grip and " racking" the slide. You will see what I mean on this.
Let us know how it turns out. She might just go back to liking your 3904!
Randy

Hunh...simple change, but it does make a difference! I'll have to get her to try this. Thanks; best suggestion yet!

 

[Hendel]

I've seen this done in USPSA quite often for reasons stated earlier. I really have nothing to add other than this.............

One of the gentleman I shoot IDPA with does this style of chamber check with a bone-stock Glock 31. Like stated before, this is generally not done with a "defensive" sidearm as the spring weight is just a bit much.

The fact that this guy is 6'4", around 250 and not an ounce of fat. What I commonly refer to as "corn-fed".

He makes it look effortless.

 

[flash60601]

I've seen this done in USPSA quite often for reasons stated earlier. I really have nothing to add other than this.............



The fact that this guy is 6'4", around 250 and not an ounce of fat. What I commonly refer to as "corn-fed".

.

As opposed to "free-range"?

Flash

 

[Bullman]

As opposed to "free-range"?

Flash

Or like myself, one who has "fed near the trough" most of his life.

 

[wheelgun1958]

Having ran across this same problem many times in over twenty years of being an instructor, I usually have them grasp the slide firmly with their support hand (left hand if they are right handed) and hold it stationary. Then have them (her) push out with her right hand on the grip of the frame. Too many try to hold the frame stationary and "rack" the slide. Even very arthritic people are able to use this effectively. When using this you are using the strongest portion of you to do the "work"...pushing the frame/grip forward. Try this yourself a number of times and then go back to holding the frame/grip and " racking" the slide. You will see what I mean on this.
Let us know how it turns out. She might just go back to liking your 3904!
Randy

That's what I had my mother do. It does work.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
With the Model 10 you were on to "Something". Try a "Round Butt" or shorter barrel length.
Also a "J" Frame 2"/3" square / round butt.
I have a number of Female Students that fell in love with a 3 inch skinny barrel Model 36 with a "De-horned" hammer.--SIMPLE POINT AND SHOOT! Sometimes the hammer cocked is unsettling to a new shooter as now you have to lower it
Jimmy

 

[RicT]

Hi:
With the Model 10 you were on to "Something". Try a "Round Butt" or shorter barrel length.
Also a "J" Frame 2"/3" square / round butt.
I have a number of Female Students that fell in love with a 3 inch skinny barrel Model 36 with a "De-horned" hammer.--SIMPLE POINT AND SHOOT! Sometimes the hammer cocked is unsettling to a new shooter as now you have to lower it
Jimmy

I don't think a shorter barrel length will work:

But I'll keep the other suggestions in mind, in case the 3904 doesn't work for her.

Thanks.

 

[jaysouth]

Some comments:
First, in shaking shaking hands with Todd Jarret or any of the several master shooters I have met, the first thing I noticed was their exceptional hand strength. He does not have to use a special lightened spring to do any of the reloads he demonstrated. In fact, he makes a point of using essentially stock Paraord guns.

Second, I have a couple of Paraord 1911 style pistols, and they are very smooth operating. My TAC FIVE 9mm runs a 12# ISMI spring and is very slick.

Third, my 12-year-old grandaughter can operate the slide on her daddy's Glock or my 1911. However, I run into many grown women in my NRA classes that cannot operate the slide on any semi-auto, sometimes because they flat DON'T WANT TO. For the ones that really want to learn, I usually can teach them a power technique in one class and have them shooting a SIGMA. For about half the women in my beginner classes, they give hubby back his semi-auto and go buy a revolver.
The "it's gotta be a semi-auto" attitude is often more of a guy thing.

Five years ago, Todd said that Dave Dawson was tuning his Para Ordnances. Shortly there after, Dave Dawson told me same thing but that Mr. Jarrett did his own trigger work. Dawson did not want to do the 11-12 OUNCE trigger that Jarrett liked.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
Tell me about the Model 10 pictured.
I found one similar to your years ago when i went though my deceased Father's things. He at sometime replaced the Franzite Stag Grips with wood and the cylinder with a blued .38spl. cylinder.
His was a "Southern Gun Distributors" of Miami butcher job of a Victory .38 S&W.
Jimmy