Range of Naval Gunfire

[Texas Star]

We have some former Navy men here, and I hope some can answer a question.

When ships shelled shore positions, like in the Normandy invasion or in the Pacific islands, what was the range of the guns?

Destroyers mounted five-inch guns, cruisers had eight inch guns, and full battleships doubled that to 16 inch guns!

I think some British destroyers had just 4.7 inch guns, and one Japanese battleship had 18 inchers.

How far inland could these ships reach enemy targets? BTW, I read that the Allies had specially trained fighter pilots directing naval gunfire. Some "Spitfires" at Normandy were Royal Navy Seafires. (Navalized Spitfires)

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

The 16" guns on the USS New Jersey would fire a 2700lb projectile 24 miles accurately enough to hit a VW Beetle sitting on the beach.

 

[joe44va]

The Japanese built a battleship with 20" guns. They didn't have enough fuel at the end of the war to send it out.

 

[Univibe]

There is an online calculator that figures foot pounds energy if you put in bullet weight and velocity.

I put in data I found on the net for one of these 16 inch shells.

Muzzle energy = hundreds of millions of foot pounds.

 

[bigwheelzip]

If your looking at longest range, Wiki lists a WWI British 18 inch naval gun firing a 3320LB shell, 23 miles.

BL 18-inch Mk I naval gun - Wikipedia

 

[jdlii]

I was fortunate to meet Mr. Joe, a resident of Lynchburg, TN and a former Pathfinder in the 101 Airborne during WWII. Mr. Joe, after his jump training, was sent with one other member of his company to Aberdeen to be trained as a forward observer for the Navy and especially, heavy cruisers and battleships.

Mr. Joe jumped in to Normandy in the early morning hours of June 6, 1944 and in addition to seeing immediate combat, he and his companion observer, called in naval gunfire on German positions behind the beaches.
He stayed with his company until they exceeded the range of the heaviest battleships. He said that the maximum range, depending on the projectile used or called for was between 18 and 24 miles.

Once his company had pushed beyond those ranges, he fully expected to return to his duties as an airborne trooper and rifleman. Much to his surprise, he and his companion were order back to HQ to appear before the CO. They received new orders that entailed being returned to England then back to the U.S. where they were reassigned to the 11th Airborne Division and jumped in on Leyte where the found themselves spotting for and calling naval gunfire.

Mr. Joe as about 5'7" and weight almost 150 pounds. His eyes would become quite moist when talking about his former company members who didn't come home. He could still wear his Eisenhower jacket that had his CIB and jump wings, with two small bronze stars, pinned in the same place that they had been in since 1944.

Mr. Joe passed away about three years ago and the local newspapers did a credible job telling his story. Prior to his passing, Mr. Joe gave a friend of mine a Colt 1911A1 that he had liberated from two French teenagers. The teens told Mr. Joe that they had taken the pistol from the holster of an American G.I. and took him to the place where the soldier still laid. It was a lieutenant from an infantry division that was to link up with the 101. Mr. Joe carried that Colt for the rest of the war and brought it home from the Pacific.

He lived a simple life in Lynchburg, TN, farming, raising a family and lived the American Dream. May he rest easy.

 

[Baggy Wrinkle]

The common 5-inch/38 mounted on most destroyer size ships had a maximum range of a little over 17,000 yards.

 

[Texas Star]

I was fortunate to meet Mr. Joe, a resident of Lynchburg, TN and a former Pathfinder in the 101 Airborne during WWII. Mr. Joe, after his jump training, was sent with one other member of his company to Aberdeen to be trained as a forward observer for the Navy and especially, heavy cruisers and battleships.

Mr. Joe jumped in to Normandy in the early morning hours of June 6, 1944 and in addition to seeing immediate combat, he and his companion observer, called in naval gunfire on German positions behind the beaches.
He stayed with his company until they exceeded the range of the heaviest battleships. He said that the maximum range, depending on the projectile used or called for was between 18 and 24 miles.

Once his company had pushed beyond those ranges, he fully expected to return to his duties as an airborne trooper and rifleman. Much to his surprise, he and his companion were order back to HQ to appear before the CO. They received new orders that entailed being returned to England that back to the U.S. where they were reassigned to the 11th Airborne Division and jumped in on Layette where the found themselves spotting for and calling naval gunfire.

Mr. Joe as about 5'7" and weight almost 150 pounds. His eyes would become quite moist when talking about his former company members who didn't come home. He could still wear his Eisenhower jacket that had his CIB and jump wings, with two small bronze stars, pinned in the same place that they had been in since 1944.

Mr. Joe passed away about three years ago and the local newspapers did a credible job telling his story. Prior to his passing, Mr. Joe gave a friend of mine a Colt 1911A1 that he had liberated from two French teenagers. The teens told Mr. Joe that they had taken the pistol from the holster of an American G.I. and let him to the place where the soldier still laid. It was a lieutenant from an infantry division that was to link up with the 101. Mr. Joe carried that Colt for the rest of the war and brought it home from the Pacific.

He lived a simple life in Lynchburg, TN, farming, raising a family and lived the American Dream. May he rest easy.

By "Layette", do you mean Leyte, in the Philippines?

I liked the account of how he got the .45. We had a recent discussion of how such guns came home from the war. I pointed out that taking one from a corpse was a likely means of acquisition. If you're not signed out for it, you're not expected to turn it in.

 

[jdlii]

By "Layette", do you mean Leyte, in the Philippines?

I liked the account of how he got the .45. We had a recent discussion of how such guns came home from the war. I pointed out that taking one from a corpse was a likely means of acquisition. If you're not signed out for it, you're not expected to turn it in.

Looks like "corrective" spelling was not my friend. Yes, I meant Leyte. It is a coincidence but, my Dad, who was in the 32nd "Red Arrow" infantry Division, was wounded on Leyte.

 

[rwsmith]

How does that.....

There is an online calculator that figures foot pounds energy if you put in bullet weight and velocity.

I put in data I found on the net for one of these 16 inch shells.

Muzzle energy = hundreds of millions of foot pounds.

How does that translate into 'stopping power'?


By the way: Seriously, they have to figure in the rotation of the earth in with direction of fire to avoid displacement of the target as the earth turns.

 

[CH4]

How does that translate into 'stopping power'?


By the way: Seriously, they have to figure in the rotation of the earth in with direction of fire to avoid displacement of the target as the earth turns.

Should ask Sanow or Marshal. Everyone knows that on 125 gr 357 mag is the best one shot stopper.

 

[DWalt]

By the way: Seriously, they have to figure in the rotation of the earth in with direction of fire to avoid displacement of the target as the earth turns.

That's called the Coriolis Effect. Beyond around 1000 yards it has to be taken into account, and the extent of the effect also depends on the direction you are firing. Ballistic computers do all those compensating aiming calculations. Back during WWII such computers existed aboard the ship but they were mechanical, not electronic, with lots of gears, screws, and cams. It was quite an art, and it took considerable skill, to operate them.

 

[LVSteve]

It is thought that the longest ship-to-ship hit was scored by HMS Warspite on the Italian battleship Guilio Cesare at over 26,000 yards. Other sources claim the Scharnhorst achieved a similar shot as she hunted down the British carrier HMS Glorious after cracking the British naval codes.

 

[rwsmith]

The epitomy of mechanical computers.....

That's called the Coriolis Effect. Beyond around 1000 yards it has to be taken into account, and the extent of the effect also depends on the direction you are firing. Ballistic computers do all those compensating aiming calculations. Back during WWII such computers existed aboard the ship but they were mechanical, not electronic, with lots of gears, screws, and cams. It was quite an art, and it took considerable skill, to operate them.

Things got faster and more accurate with the digital age that was shortly to follow but the mechanical art went out the window. I read a book called "The Measure of Things" that described amazing devices invented for their time that are still impressive today.

The Norden bombsight is another WWII era device that is jaw dropping in its precision and complexity.

 

[STCM(SW)]

My first ship with 3 twin 5" 38 mounts could hit a target 12 miles.
Some other ships I was on had 5" 54 guns that could hit targets 13 miles.

 

[bushmaster1313]

That's called the Coriolis Effect. Beyond around 1000 yards it has to be taken into account, and the extent of the effect also depends on the direction you are firing. Ballistic computers do all those compensating aiming calculations. Back during WWII such computers existed aboard the ship but they were mechanical, not electronic, with lots of gears, screws, and cams. It was quite an art, and it took considerable skill, to operate them.

The Coriolis effect is unusually strong — and varies direction — at the gun ranges I frequent.

 

[steelslaver]

Normally, for the muzzle energy the formula is Grains X FPS X FPS divided by 450240

So, for doing this with lb instead of grains it would be LB X FPS X FPS divided by 64.32

Further dividing that answer by 2000 would give you TONs of Muzzle
energy.

 

[Roadtrash]

Guys please, it's too early for all this math, you're making my head hurt.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

That's called the Coriolis Effect. Beyond around 1000 yards it has to be taken into account, and the extent of the effect also depends on the direction you are firing. Ballistic computers do all those compensating aiming calculations. Back during WWII such computers existed aboard the ship but they were mechanical, not electronic, with lots of gears, screws, and cams. It was quite an art, and it took considerable skill, to operate them.

At 1000 yards the Coriolis Effect is less than 2"! With a 5" shell, they wouldn't waste the time the to figure it at less than 2.5 to 3 miles! (it also depends on the direction you are shooting) Another factor in calculating where any projectile is aimed at distance is called Spin Drift. It has to do with weather you have left hand or right hand twist to the rifling. It is not dependent on the direction you are shooting.

Temperature, humidity, and Barometric Pressure as well as wind speed, all figure into the ballistics.

Impact size is based on blast radius. (which is bigger than crater size!) on the 16" shell from a Missouri class battle wagon, the blast radius from a HE (high explosive) round would cover 15 to 20 VW Beetles. But from the AP armor piercing) round, there is no blast from the solid metal projectile. and the crater is rather deep! (A friend of mine shower pictures of Vietnam shelled by the USS New Jersey, these were slightly less than 20 miles inland and about 35 to 40 feet across. The impact zone was several hundred acres.

What was the cost of each shot? They use 80 to 120 pounds of Smokeless powder plus 10 pounds of Black Powder to get that burning. The HE round has well over 2000 pounds of high explosive in it! This material was all made in the early 1940's and TNT is a byproduct of baking coke (charcoal from coal for smelting steel) or direct refining of oil.

In the 1980's (I think) the Navy ordered a friend of mine to have modern steel barrels for the 16" guns made. There was not one foundry in the world capable or interested in casting them, nor is any of the rifling machinery left! So for the last few deployments the battle wagons went out without their huge gun turrets! Cruise Missile Launchers replaced the 16" turrets. They still had their small arms though, 8" guns. (Cruise Missiles run about $1.5 million each! plus system development costs.

Just a fun fact: The 120mm smooth bore cannon used on the M1-A tank was originally developed by Krupp during WWII but was put on the shelf because it penetrates around 34" of armor and US battle ships only had 16" and Yamamoto class had 22" of lessor quality armor. Modern Main Battle tanks are tougher than Battleships!

Ivan

 

[rwsmith]

You've noticed that, too?

The Coriolis effect is unusually strong — and varies direction — at the gun ranges I frequent.

It's amazing how strong the effect is at seven yards.