Range report/ BIG problem with M27 conversion

I often thought that a hardened nut with an index mark would be helpful for this work.
Kevin

Kevin, I have such a nut, I made up some N frame thread chasers. In order to clean up the threads after putting in the reliefs on the taps I Tapped a piece of D2 tool steel and hardened it with no chip reliefs. It would work for such a purpose.

I would lend it out. I have the tool that has the rod goes down the barrel for the cutter to attach to. As I have made bushings to keep the rod centered it cuts real square. But I still finish with a few file strokes as the cutter can leave small chatter marks
 
Kevin, I have such a nut, I made up some N frame thread chasers. In order to clean up the threads after putting in the reliefs on the taps I Tapped a piece of D2 tool steel and hardened it with no chip reliefs. It would work for such a purpose.

I would lend it out. I have the tool that has the rod goes down the barrel for the cutter to attach to. As I have made bushings to keep the rod centered it cuts real square. But I still finish with a few file strokes as the cutter can leave small chatter marks

Jim,

I may have to build another revolver just to borrow that!

Kevin
 
An interesting approach I had never heard of. I can see how it would work great on heavier rifle barrel threads, It would take a while and more finis with 36 to the inch threads, but should work and once complete a very permanent fix. I have a piece of tool steel I tapped and hardened when making some N frame taps Unlike a normal die it has no reliefs. I am thinking that if I supported it ran a barrel in it a couple threads and then gave the muzzle a good pop with a brass hammer, then ran the barrel in a couple more threads and gave it another pop and continued until I was out of threads, I would accomplish the same thing.

I am going to try it if I run into a loose fit again

It'll be interesting to see if the no relief die would do the same work. Probably (maybe) if the die threads only engage 2 threads at a time on the bbl shank so it doesn't take much force to swage them forward (?)


I have used this method for yrs on everything from Colt SAA and Ruger bbls to Mauser and other CF rifle actions.

Yes it can take a bit of time on the smaller tpi, but not as much as you would expect.

If you do the complete thread (swage it the entire length & twist) and not try and do a quick job of it and do just a couple threads,,it will stand up to anything the orig thread was expected to do.

You can expect to gain about a 1/4 turn hard draw up needing a wrench & vise of some sort with this method. Sometimes a little less.

Swage the entire standing V of the thread forward, not just the tip of the V.
The latter will give you the same effect but not as strong obviously.

I've never had one 'un-do' itself as far as tightness once re-assembled. Firing a solid assembly doesn't unwind it.

What it does not stand up to is a constant take apart & reassemble over and over again. Thats something not normally done anyway.
The only exception may be the TD joint threads

So it's use in tightening up the Win LA takedowns is generally for putting them back nice and tight.. but then leaving them assembled and using them as a solid frame gun.

The Winchester TD take up is sort of a folly in it's use of the 3 set screws dimpling out the bbl extension flat plate to press firmer against the front of the recv'r.
Really bad ones will push the bbl upwards noticably and even increase HS a bit. Seems like they could have come up with a better soln.

This method of swaging or peening the threads forward was very common when I got interested in gunsmithing in the eary 60's..(peening being probably a bad choice of descriptive language for this as people think you just hammer the theads down flat maybe to tighten the fit)

I was shown the methods by oldsters I worked with over time in different shops and even in one factory setting.

Not so anymore I guess.
I've shown it to some people interested in the trade and they look at me sideways.
I did show it to one 'Restoration Specialist' who had a 92TD in for work that was loose and the customer wanted it tightened up.

I told him it was not a permanent TD fix up, but rather to tighten the joint and leave it a solid frame set up.
A permanent fix would require much more work.

But this was fast and he liked that.
He ran with the idea as his own. Proclaimed his great knowledge and experience. 'Fixed' more than a few with the method and then had most of those customers complian that the TD joints were loosening after repeated use again.
You can't fix stupid.

I never bothered to lend him much experience again.

I reclock screws with just a hammer, like the trigger plate screws on SxS's and such. Forend cap screws, etc.
But that's another story.
 
I believe that even a barrel that is set up correctly will not keep getting tight at the correct spot if you tightened and loosened it repeatedly. Everytime you run it up the threads of the 2 pieces lap together a little bit, then when you torque it the faces lap together as well as press the threads back a tiny bit. The finer the thread the more apt this is to occur. Thee only way I can see a threaded take down working long term is with a jam nut or a tension nut.
 
I didn't notice this until you said the shop you bought it from already had it.

What I would do, and have done several times, is exactly what Protocol Design said in the first reply, only I would use Green Loc-Tite Sleeve Mount which is a high strength product, not medium like the blue.

I have done this with several S&Ws over the years and do use the Green Loc-Tite. I have done both J-Frame and K-Frame S&Ws with no issues.

The barrel pin is not worthless, it did exactly what it is intended to do. It never was meant to lock the barrel, just keep it close, in a serviceable position, if the threads came loose.

Most don't know this, or refuse to believe it, but S&W installs the barrels in Airweight revolvers by gluing them into the frame. This is because aluminum alloys flow under pressure and the barrels would not stay tight if they depended on barrel torque, like steel frame guns. What does S&W use for this? Green Loc-Tite just like I do. If you don't believe me then ask Dr. Roy, he was the Revolver Foreman, the man in charge of revolver production for many years!
 
I have used Blue Loctite to fix a few barrels over the years. They will stay where you put them during use, but can be removed without heating. I never give advice that I haven't tried and proven for myself. The main thing to get Loctites to work well is good cleaning of parts with solvent, then getting all the threads coated and wipe off the excess. One drop doesn't get the job done on anything bigger than a tiny screw.

The Green retaining compounds are the strongest ones I know of, and I use it for other things. There are multiple numbers of each color. The 2 Green ones I use the most are #620 retaining compound and #290 wicking. The #620 is a thick viscosity that will fill gaps, and extremely strong. The #290 is thinner than water and wicks into already assembled parts. That makes it good for a loose dovetail on a front or rear sight, a tightened nut, etc.

I hadn't heard of peening the threads before, so that's another trick for the mental toolbox.

I have run across 4 revolvers in 50 years that had the frame threaded at a slight angle, which in turn, makes the barrel at a slight angle to the frame. These guns cannot be sighted in. That may be something to check on this one, as it was so far off. You can put a straight edge along the sides and top of the top strap and see if the muzzle end is an equal amount of gap on either side and parallel on the top.
 
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"I have run across 4 revolvers in 50 years that had the frame threaded at a slight angle, which in turn, makes the barrel at a slight angle to the frame. These guns cannot be sighted in. That may be something to check on this one, as it was so far off. You can put a straight edge along the sides and top of the top strap and see if the muzzle end is an equal amount of gap on either side and parallel on the top."

I've got one. A Model 24-3 6 and 1/2" barrel. Bought it used about 1990 when I knew a lot less than I do now. Could not get it to zero, even with the rear sight cranked all the way over. Finally noticed it one day. Sent the revolver to Cylinder & Slide. When it came back it would zero with the rear sight blade in a reasonable position. According to their gunsmith (whose name after 30 some odd years I do not remember), all it took was a big piece of lead and a couple of good whacks.
 
Thanks for the additional information guys. I plan on taking it back to the range tomorrow and I’m curious how it’s going to shoot.
I’ll let you know how it goes.

Paul
 
Wow! On 1 March, you posted this,

Update.
Thanks so much for all of the information and time put into helping figure this out.
I contacted the shop this morning and spoke to them about the situation and they told me to bring it in and that they had two gunsmiths on the premises and they would make it right.
So, I drove up and dropped the pistol off …
Paul

And today, 4 March you post,


Thanks for the additional information guys. I plan on taking it back to the range tomorrow and I’m curious how it’s going to shoot.
I’ll let you know how it goes.

Paul

That is a very fast turn around! I am not sure I could have been that quick working on my own revolver. I wish you the best.

Kevin
 
After another trip to the range the results were pretty much the same, the pistol still shoots about 10-12” high and 6-8” to the left at 25 yards. The groups were about 6”. I adjusted the rear sight as far as it would go.
I called the shop and to their credit they took the pistol back and gave me a full refund.
I want to thank all of you for taking your time and knowledge. I certainly learned a lot!!

Paul
 
I've heard of straightening rifle barrels by wacking them over a round wood cylinder on the ground or bench. I wonder how many rifle barrels you'd have to ruin before you would develop the feel for the correct wack technique. I can't swear this is a real thing.

Edit to add that this has been a very interesting thread. I thank those with the knowledge for contributing.
 
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After another trip to the range the results were pretty much the same, the pistol still shoots about 10-12” high and 6-8” to the left at 25 yards. The groups were about 6”. I adjusted the rear sight as far as it would go.
I called the shop and to their credit they took the pistol back and gave me a full refund.
I want to thank all of you for taking your time and knowledge. I certainly learned a lot!!

Paul
Sounds like something is wrong, possibly an incorrectly bored frame.
 
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