Range session yesterday, Is it all about the ammo?

[DasFriek]

This was my first "real" day of shooting my rifle at 50 yards, Short range still i know....
Surprisingly i run into a guy i knew threw friends about 23 years ago and after we got caught up on life we did all the things people who love firearms do and discussed alot and compared things.

He was shooting a Anschutz .22lr with a couple types of real match grade ammo. I swear it sounded like a pellet gun it was so quiet. Does that rifle do something that dampens the sounds other than the subsonic ammo? Amazing rifle none the less.

I had my Savage BTV .17HMR which by all accounts was hanging with his gun accuracy wise. Admittingly i have alot to learn about distance and accuracy shooting, But im not bad.

My 15/22 didnt do so well in comparison.
His gun was doing easy 1" 3 shot groups and lower.
My .17 was low on targets so i only used 2 targets for 50 rounds but i kept all those rounds in 2" groups even with 20+ shots into 1 target.
The 15/22 was shooting "loose" 3" groups. I say loose as a few were outside that. But for the most part 3" is what id call it with 50 rounds in 1 target.
I was shooting the Federal bulk 325 Accushot. I should have tried some of the subsonic i have on hand but didn't think too.

Now i dont expect the 15/22 to do 1" groups at 100 yards. But eventually if possible 1" groups at 50 yards would be great.

My question is this. I know ammo aside what else will be needed to achieve that? Or is it even possible without sinking tons of cash into it?
Ive done a 15 minute trigger job +2 hours of polishing so the trigger is a healthy 3.5lb's which is high still for that kind of accuracy. 2 stage trigger required?

My scope being the cheapest Bushnell makes that was free from my .17's package deal is 1" too 1.5" off the rail to make the scope usable. The reticle sucks and is unusable if i lower it and move it more forwards to the charging handle like it should be.
I was able to get it my Nikon on this gun at half that height and it be set perfect. But another $220 Nikon isn't in my budget atm.

I guess what im asking in a way is should i work and massage this gun or just invest in a better .22lr bolt action and enjoy the 15/22 for the fun gun it is?

To get the 15/22 to 1" groups at 50 yards what else will i need besides these items?
Better match ammo, 2 stage trigger, better optics in an optimum mounting spot and height?

Im really afraid to sink a ton into the 15/22 due to the fact its a semi auto with a 25 round mag and target ammo threw that will go FAST!

 

[zercool]

First question - was his Annie a bolt gun? Those are almost always more accurate than semi-autos, because the bolt doesn't move during the shot. It probably sounded quieter because it has a longer barrel and he was shooting subsonics.

I haven't put my hands on a 15-22 yet, but everything I'm seeing suggests it may not be a 2MOA rifle (1" @ 50yd). More like 3-4MOA, which is pretty standard for mass-produced .22LR semi-autos. If you're really looking to make some accuracy, it might be time to get a bolt .22. I shoot the Savage MkII BTVS and it is a damn tack driver - and yes, you need better optics for it too. I put a Nikon ProStaff on mine.

I wouldn't sweat the trigger. 3.5lb isn't bad at all - the NRA matches require a 4-lb trigger. As long as it's a clean break, that's what really matters.

Enjoy what you've got and save for a target rifle!

 

[DasFriek]

Yes, His was a bolt action.
Looks like i may have some decisions to make soon then.
Whats on the gun now is good enough for 2"-3" so far with crap ammo, so ill be working on that until i decide what path ill take.
I dont want to invest in accuracy when it cant be fully taken advantage of. But the Gun definitely takes advantage of being fun.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I guess what im asking in a way is should i work and massage this gun or just invest in a better .22lr bolt action and enjoy the 15/22 for the fun gun it is?

When I first got my 15-22 I tried a few different types of ammo and put a 3-9x scope on it. I soon discovered that I would enjoy the rifle more if I used it as the "fun gun it is". After a few thousand rounds I once again tried different types of ammo and put on a different 3-9x scope on it. I again discovered that I would enjoy the rifle more if I used it for the "fun gun it is". There won't be a third time

For me... A cheap red dot dot scope.... cheap Fed Val Pack ammo... making soda cans and shotgun shells dance at 50yds and under (some steel when I get the opportunity) brings a big smile. Among others.... I have a $99 Savage bolt action that shoots .5'' groups and under at 50yds with any ammo all day long. After a few shots.... yawn....

 

[BELT_FED]

if you want to punch paper your buddy had the rifle to do that... they r hard to beat... the bolt moving has very little to do with why a auto loader has a hard time keeping up witha bolt gun... the biggest reason for this is because the barrel's chamber is made to a different spec. on an auto loader... if you take a custom built 10/22 with a good aftermarket barrel and load a round into it then cycle the bolt you will see that the bullet never enguaged the rifling this is because if it did the gun would not cycle reliably... because the bolt would not cycle under the low pressure of a sub round.. there for the bullet has to "jump the gap" and it doesnt allways jump it perfectly the same way.. this distorts the bullet causing inconsistancy.. a good bolt gun like your friends if it was set up correctly when you bolt in a live round then remove it you can see the rifling on the bullet.. cycling isnt a problem because you are closing the bolt and locking it

 

[emmandpeashooter]

Don't try and turn your Silverado into a Ferrari. If you'd like to punch paper at 50 yards get the gun to do it. Not that the 15-22 is super bad at it but, it's not a bench gun. Like Belt said get the right tool for the right job

 

[DasFriek]

Gotcha guys, I do have a few things to do so it "might" be a tad more accurate if i get the urge to kill tree rats this fall.

I picked up a CenterPoint 4-16x40 so i can at least get the scope closer to the bore, Heck it may even get swapped on to my .17hmr and my Nikon Buckmaster put back on since this scope has much more range.
A $30 Tasco that was free in a package deal may as well be a coke bottle strapped to your gun.

I also ordered a bullet accuriser/sizer and point maker from D-Rock over at rimfirecentral.com
FS .22 caliber bullet sizer - RimfireCentral.com Forums
Thats mainly for fun, But will help my Ruger MKIII 22/45 also and any bolt action .22lr i get later. I have too much time on my hands so shaping and sizing single bullets by hand should be a good time waster.

If i cant shoot 1" groups at 50 yards ill shoot 25 rounds into 3" groups really fast. lol
This isn't no heart breaking news either, so your not hurting my feelings or breaking my dreams. It was just an idea if it was possible.

Why im so into accuracy all of a sudden surprises even me. I think the 93BTV .17HMR spoiled me a bit and i wasn't even trying, Nor am i that good yet.

So how do i get my 5" 1911 to shoot 100 yard 2" groups with iron sights? I know, I walk down range and shoot the target from 10'

 

[chuck s]

For me... A cheap red dot dot scope.... cheap Fed Val Pack ammo... making soda cans and shotgun shells dance at 50yds and under (some steel when I get the opportunity) brings a big smile. Among others.... I have a $99 Savage bolt action that shoots .5'' groups and under at 50yds with any ammo all day long. After a few shots.... yawn....

Bears repeating for me too. I watch the benchrest guys shooting off the concrete benches and realize not everyone feels like me, though!

Here's my idea of "accuracy." 100 rounds, rapid fire (mabe 90 seconds), 50 yeads, standing, unsupported. There's 10 "misses" hiding behind the rifle -- all in the body though.

-- Chuck

 

[DasFriek]

You may not believe it, But with the new scope and some subsonic ammo i was doing 1" groups with my 15/22 at 50 yards.

Another thing i found is the 15/22 doesn't like anything but bulk Federal when its high velocity ammo.
I even tried some Federal Gold medal 1200fps that did worse than the subsonic ammo.

It loved the CCI subsonic HP and the Aguila 60gr subsonic sniper. It hung with the .17hmr at 50 yards with this ammo.

With work i guess ill see how 100 yard does soon.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You may not believe it, But with the new scope and some subsonic ammo i was doing 1" groups with my 15/22 at 50 yards.

Another thing i found is the 15/22 doesn't like anything but bulk Federal when its high velocity ammo.
I even tried some Federal Gold medal 1200fps that did worse than the subsonic ammo.

It loved the CCI subsonic HP and the Aguila 60gr subsonic sniper. It hung with the .17hmr at 50 yards with this ammo.

With work i guess ill see how 100 yard does soon.

Is this what you were using?

 

[DasFriek]

That looks like an updated box, But yes same ammo.
Ive heard of instability issues and key-holing in some rifles, But no issues here.
I hope you guys don't think im saying the 15/22 is a "Target" rifle. But with subsonic ammo and 50 yards it surely didn't look like i was shooting a shotgun at 25'.
The CenterPoint 4-16x40 may be giving me an advantage also.
Compared to my Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40 at 3x the price i cant say id pay that much again, Yeh its that good.
So is the Nikon, But im just stating for $70 its one heck of a scope.

I did save my targets from this shooting session, But its nothing that can be measured. Reason is i didn't expect the gun to react to subsonic ammo so well and group like that. So most targets had 10-20 rounds in each.
But i swear to you my .17HMR's target looks exactly like the 2 subsonic ammo targets i used.
That most likely will change at 100 yards, But the CP scope should help easily calculate drop and adjust so i may be close.

DON'T and this is a big DON'T ! Do not waste money on any "target" ammo that isn't subsonic. Federal bulk ammo will shoot as well if not better.

The range is closed Monday and Tuesday so on Wednesday im heading back with single small pasters just for 3 shot groups and ill hopefully reproduce my results and post pics.