Range Test: S&W 10mm vs .41 Magnum

[Hawg Rider]

I took two of my favorite handguns to the range yesterday for some exercise...my 4" nickel Model 57 and my M&P 10mm 2.0. Quite a few folks tend to believe that the 10mm is almost the semi-auto version of the .41 Magnum, so I wanted to check it out for myself. No ballistics gel, no chronograph, just paper targets. I realize that this is really an apples and oranges test, but what the heck! Ammo used was 210g SWCs in the Model 57, and 205g Syntech Range ammo in the 10mm. I shot 2-handed Weaver style at 15 yds., and the Model 57 was shot double action. As expected, the Model 57 was extremely accurate and any "fliers" were caused by the shooter, not the handgun! Recoil was brisk, but not painful, even using the GA target stocks. The downside: only 6 rounds. I've been very fortunate with my new 10mm and have had zero issues (over 500 rounds fired). I put 100 rounds downrange during this test using 3 different magazines, and the pistol, magazines, and Holosun worked flawlessly. Felt recoil with the 10mm is snappy but less than the Model 57, and it's easy to control with the aggressively textured grips. The upside: 15 rounds. I love vintage S&W revolvers, and have been shooting Model 57s since the late 70s. The 10mm is new for me, but it's quickly becoming one of my favorites.

Here are my totally unscientific results: Both handguns were comfortable to shoot, although the .41 Magnum had quite a bit more felt recoil. Both handguns were very accurate, and the red dot sight didn't really provide a big advantage over iron sights at 15 yards. As tested, both handguns weighed about the same- but the 10mm had 15 rounds in the magazine, a Holosun red dot optic, and a Nightstick light attached. I really like the flat trigger on the 10mm and the quick trigger reset. With the Model 57, the action is butter smooth and I like the ability to "pre-stage" the trigger in double action. So which handgun wins my test? Although I believe that the .41 Magnum is still the more powerful cartridge, the 10mm is not far behind and the 15 rounds (and quick change magazines) vs. 6 rounds gives the win to the S&W M&P 10mm 2.0.

 

[DR505]

Just look at the ballistics. The 10mm is much more comparable to a .357 magnum. It does not hold a candle to the .41 magnum.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

The original 10mm load by Norma was quite stout…very close to .41 Magnum specs. Since then the 10mm factory loads have been downloaded some.

 

[Bald1]

I thought the 10mm was comparable to the .40?????

 

[scott1970]

Just look at the ballistics. The 10mm is much more comparable to a .357 magnum. It does not hold a candle to the .41 magnum.

Reloading manuals show the 10mm will never be equal to a .41 Magnum, although this comparison seems to persist on the internet. Both are great calibers, but they aren't comparable to each other.

 

[DR505]

The original 10mm load by Norma was quite stout…very close to .41 Magnum specs. Since then the 10mm factory loads have been downloaded some.

This is an inaccurate statement. Even the original loading never approached the power of a .41 magnum. Below is one of numerous comparison articles. This has been an urban legend that just refuses to die.

Now, you might be saying “how about hot-rod 10mm loads from companies like Double-Tap or Buffalo Bore… those will put me in .41 mag territory”. Well, not exactly… you see, everything is relative. The .41 Mag can also be hot-rodded to attain “ludicrous speed” velocities. And, when comparing hot-rod loads side-by-side, the disparity between the two cartridges becomes even wider. Let's take a look at Buffalo Bore’s awe-inspiring heavy “Outdoorsman” line as an example:

The 220g cast lead 10mm load produces an impressive 1140 fps out of a 4.6″ Glock 20 barrel. That is 635 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. Very nice to say the least! However, the Buffalo Bore 230g cast lead .41 Mag load produces a massive 1370 fps out of just a 4″ revolver, or a 20% increase in velocity with a 10g increase in mass. That equates to a whopping 959 ft/lbs of energy, or a 51% increase over the comparable 10mm load.

A more accurate comparison would be to par the 10mm Auto to a full-house .357 Magnum in a 5″-6″ barrel. As you can see, the .357 Magnum produces ballistics that more closely compare to the 10mm Auto. Having said that, 10mm fans should not feel down and blue. The .357 Mag is arguably one of the best man-stoppers in the handgun world. And, with the right load, it makes a very capable backwoods defense cartridge. Having 15+1 rounds of .357 Mag power in a semi-auto G20 is nothing to feel short-changed about.10mm Auto ≠ .41 Magnum: "Myth" Busted? | Adiga Armory

 

[Dave Lively]

The original 10mm load by Norma was quite stout…very close to .41 Magnum specs. Since then the 10mm factory loads have been downloaded some.

Norma put some impressive numbers on the box but in both my personal experience and all the YouTube reviews I could find the actual velocity fell well short of the printed values.

I bought a 10mm pistol right after they came out in the 80s. The one I had was a Springfield Omega and it broke a couple of times so I traded it for a 610 a few years later. I shot some of the Norma ammo through that 610 and while it felt stiffer than the PMC factory ammo it always extracted easily. I tried some of the hot 10mm ammo currently available and often referred to as "real 10mm" and had to pound the empties out with a dowel. It was much hotter than the original Norma ammo.

Those testing the old ammo on YouTube with a chronograph get velocities that are about 200 fps short of the advertised velocities. Some of them are so sure the original Norma ammo was as hot as Norma claimed they blame the low velocity on age. But I and many others have shot ammo in other calibers just as old without seeing velocity loss. The truth is the original Norma ammo was not as hot as advertised. But the myth endures.

The OP didn't have a chronograph but is correct about the 41 Magnum being more powerful. At least in factory ammo loaded to SAAMI specs. I suspect the boutique ammo that does match the advertised velocity of the Norma ammo is actually 10mm +P or 10mm +P+. But equipment to measure pressure is too expensive for hobbyists or independent gun reviewers so none of us know what kind of pressure it is being loaded to.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMtg1Q6vP3k&list=PLNw5las6Yz2hN2bw58cNhxfaZhJzvEi_h&index=2[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-e3BTkzr_M&list=PLNw5las6Yz2hN2bw58cNhxfaZhJzvEi_h&index=3&t=1243s[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHBM1cZOo_Y&list=PLNw5las6Yz2hN2bw58cNhxfaZhJzvEi_h&index=5&t=260s[/ame]

 

[hardluk1]

Today a 41 mag factory loaded ammo like from underwood and BB can throw a 210gr bullet at 1500fps from a 4" barreled revolver and loads like that just leave the hottest 10mm loads in the dirt when dealing with dangerous game or for hunting . Might want some hogue rubber grips for this load . Now a hotter 44mag but the handguns can be lighter for the 41 mag too .

 

[ultratec00]

I too am befuddled by the comparisons. Yeah there are hopped rounds out there that are stout, but are they accurate out of your particular firearm? For me, accuracy is a must and there's typically a happy medium between performance and accuracy.

I just recently picked up a 10mm and may use is for a woods firearm. That said, I compared it to a 45 acp using a similar weight bullet, not a 41 mag. I settled on one bullet weight range for either 180/185. From what I have seen in ballistics tests, the 10mm does noticeably penetrate better that a comparable 45 acp round. That has a benefit for a woods round, maybe not so much for a self defense round. For self defense, I'll stick with the 45acp and a 185 JHP.. For woods carry non-hunting, the 10mm and a 180 JHP. The above assuming snakes are not out. If so, my 686+ with snake shot in the first 2 cylinders.

If I'm deer hunting, no brainer.. My 629 will always win out..

 

[stansdds]

In my experience, the 10mm Auto is not a 41 Magnum. It is, however, a semi-automatic pistol cartridge that equals the power of a 357 Magnum revolver.

 

[gwpercle]

Nice Test ...
But I'm not trading in my model 58 S&W 41 magnum for a 10mm , 15 rounds , red dpt sight and all , just yet .
When the chips are down ... I bet I can draw , get the first shot off faster and hit what I'm aiming at with my revolver ... You carry and shoot a revolver long enough ... you get good and fast with it .
Gary

 

[colt_saa]

The 10MM Auto cartridge is not a 41 Magnum ​

That incorrect myth began 20+ years ago when John Taffin wrote an article about the newly introduced 10MM Magnum cartridge

In the Article, Taffin compares the ballistics of the NEW 10MM Magnum with the 41 Magnum cartridge

Courtesy of SixGuns.Com, here is the story that started it all Taffin Tests the 10MM Magnum

Somehow the word Magnum got dropped off the brains of people, when talking about that story they just heard 10MM and now decades later we have an Urban Legend .

 

[Hair Trigger]

I thought the 10mm was comparable to the .40?????

It is, in the same way .357 Magnum is comparable to .38 Spl.+P.

Whatever loads Norma had for 10mm back whenever must have been truly awesome, as the hottest loads I've seen for 10mm in the 200 grain bullet range top out around 1200 fps from a 5" barrel. A 6" .41M can reach 1400 fps or a bit better with a 210 grain. The physics alone speak for themselves. SD between the two are almost identical so greater mass at greater velocity equals much greater energy.

 

[dave1918a2]

Been shooting 41 mag for a few decades, and 10MM also. The two cartridges aren't in the same zip code. The 10MM was designed for law enforcement and was never intended to be a hunting cartridge. Only problem was LE couldn't handle the recoil, so here comes the 40S&W. Which has lost to hi-cap 9's. Doesn't matter which trips Your trigger as both are intended for completely different applications.

 

[The Mighty S&W]

While I agree that both cartridges are awesome in their own right, the 10mm is absolutely not even in the same league of power as the .41 Magnum. I’ve spent a lot of time running hot 10mm loads through full size 1911’s, and about the most you can expect from a 10mm is going to be something like a Buffalo Bore 180 grain load making about 728 lb ft of energy. That’s certainly nothing to sneeze at, but a .41 Magnum it most certainly is not. It is important to note also, that although I’m not sure what barrel length that 10mm figure is achieved with, I am fairly certain it is not the common 4-5 inch variety most people are using.

On the other hand, I also own a Smith & Wesson model 57 6 inch in .41 Magnum, and it is currently loaded with a 210 grain bullet from Underwood Ammo that makes 1,135 ft lb of energy from a 6 inch barrel. Not only is that more than an additional 400 fr lb of energy, but it is making all that extra energy while pushing a projectile that is 30 grains heavier. That particular load packs more power than just about every off-the-shelf offering from the mainstream ammo companies in .44 Magnum.

So, no. The 10mm is not even remotely close to the .41 Magnum in terms of power. Where the 10mm does shine, is in the fact that it produces significantly less recoil, it can be had in guns that offer a huge capacity advantage, the price of ammunition is generally lower, and the weight of a loaded firearm is generally going to be less than that of the large framed revolvers required to run the .41 Magnum.

 

[SuperMan]

When measured out of guns of equal size, as in a 5" 1911 and a 4" 57, the difference when comparing nominal 200 grain .40s and 210 grain .41s, that have the same sectional density, the difference isn't too great.

I've chronoed almost every factory .41 round and out of a 4" tube the overall average runs right at 1250 fps for 210 grain ammo. 200 grain full load hardcast 10mms run between 1200-1250 fps.

Now is the potential of a .41 greater...absolutely...I have 300 grain loads that run 1250 fps from a 5.5" gun whereas the best one can even handload a 10mm is a 220 at 1200.

But if we are talking a carry gun for the woods or even the city, who is going to haul around a 6" N-frame...whereas a 5" GM can be slipped into the waistband...

Recoil control/followup shots are also easier with a fully loaded 10mm vs a 4" .41 Magnum...

To me each has their place, strengths and weaknesses....

Bob

 

[DR505]

When measured out of guns of equal size, as in a 5" 1911 and a 4" 57, the difference when comparing nominal 200 grain .40s and 210 grain .41s, that have the same sectional density, the difference isn't too great.

I've chronoed almost every factory .41 round and out of a 4" tube the overall average runs right at 1250 fps for 210 grain ammo. 200 grain full load hardcast 10mms run between 1200-1250 fps.

Now is the potential of a .41 greater...absolutely...I have 300 grain loads that run 1250 fps from a 5.5" gun whereas the best one can even handload a 10mm is a 220 at 1200.

But if we are talking a carry gun for the woods or even the city, who is going to haul around a 6" N-frame...whereas a 5" GM can be slipped into the waistband...

Recoil control/followup shots are also easier with a fully loaded 10mm vs a 4" .41 Magnum...

To me each has their place, strengths and weaknesses....

Bob

The point is that the 10mm is essentially a .357 magnum in semi-auto form and comparisons to .41 magnum do not hold water. Any load can be made less powerful, so that is not an apt comparison.

 

[The Mighty S&W]

When measured out of guns of equal size, as in a 5" 1911 and a 4" 57, the difference when comparing nominal 200 grain .40s and 210 grain .41s, that have the same sectional density, the difference isn't too great.

I've chronoed almost every factory .41 round and out of a 4" tube the overall average runs right at 1250 fps for 210 grain ammo. 200 grain full load hardcast 10mms run between 1200-1250 fps.

Now is the potential of a .41 greater...absolutely...I have 300 grain loads that run 1250 fps from a 5.5" gun whereas the best one can even handload a 10mm is a 220 at 1200.

But if we are talking a carry gun for the woods or even the city, who is going to haul around a 6" N-frame...whereas a 5" GM can be slipped into the waistband...

Recoil control/followup shots are also easier with a fully loaded 10mm vs a 4" .41 Magnum...

To me each has their place, strengths and weaknesses....

Bob

So, basically what you’re saying is that if you allow for a longer barrel 10mm, a shorter barrel .41 Magnum, load the 10mm to at or near its maximum potential, and download the .41 Magnum to powderpuff levels, the 10mm can come pretty close to matching the .41 Magnum? I’d like to see your comparison methods applied to something like the .45 ACP and the .460 S&W Magnum. Nobody buys a 10mm or a .41 Magnum with the intention of running low powered loads all the time. Both are hot rods in their respective forms with the 10mm being mostly an autoloader and the .41 Magnum mostly a revolver.

As for your inquiry about “who is going to haul around a 6” N Frame?”… I do. We get mountain lions on my rural lake property, and six rounds of 1,135 lb ft energy is more confidence inspiring than anything commonly available in an autoloader. I’ve also been known to carry the big six shooter under a jacket even when out and about in town, most recently yesterday.

To each his own, but the 10mm is in no way, shape, or form the equal to a .41 Magnum. It just isn’t. To say otherwise is like the guy with a V6 Camaro or Mustang trying to convince people that it’s “just as good” as a V8. The two aren’t the same.

 

[Farmer17]

Why do people constantly want to compare a 10mm to a .41 magnum? Why not compare it to a .221 Fireball, 38 Special, or .455 Webley? All the rounds do different things for different reasons. I had no desire whatsoever for a 10mm but when we started backpack camping in bear country it seemed like a good idea. I like my M&P10 a lot!

 

[SuperMan]

If you measure muzzle to breechface a 4" 57 and a 5" 1911 they are almost the same...lay them on top of each other and they are almost the same...that is the size comparison that the OP initiated... They are also the most common platforms for a "carry" gun....

Don't know what loads you have chronographed out of 4" .41 Magnum but they aren't running 1500 fps like the factory always advertised them at. Remington Factory 210 Soft Points run 1250 fps...hardly a "powderpuff" load. Federal Fusion and Classic 210s were all in the same area. Speer Gold Dot was 1180. These are all "full loads" The Winchester and Remington original POLICE 210 LSW ran 940 and 960 fps...

So with a standard factory 210 is there anything that hasn't been killed two or four legger wise on this continent...no.

As to the 10mm...the original "standard" is a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps out of a 5" barrel...what won't that take down that a .41 will...nothing.

I think it is great that you carry a 6" 57 with hot loads... I have always carried a 4" with loads more in the 1100 fps for more control... to each their own...

And don't get me wrong...I am Mr.4T1...favorite revolver round of all time...perfect balance of power and controlability... I'll gladly take any .41 or 10mm, that said I'll take a 10mm over a .357 any time when it comes to defense against animals...

Bob