Ransom's Reliable Rest

[rubiranch]

Has anyone ever used one of these??

 

[Rastoff]

I have not used one, but they're not the industry standard for nothing. If you want to know how good your gun is, this is the only way to do it.

The only reason I don't have one is price.

 

[Golddollar]

My one club's former president had one, and we used it to check out various loads through a target pistol I had acquired. It was amazing the way it showed how different loads differed even with small variances in the powder charges. The club actually built a concrete mounting stand for a Ransom Rest so that really eliminated variables from the operation.

 

[rubiranch]

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to go ahead and get it.

I have a couple of guns I'd like to have right on the money.

Hopefully when I know its not the gun I'll try harder.

 

[9146gt]

I have used a Ransom rest for a few years. Mostly testing at 50 yards. They do have some quirks but are a good tool to find the accuracy of a pistol.
I think a "barrel testing fixture" is a better option.

Tom

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

RANSOME REST

Have used one for years. As with everything, cost has gone up. Inserts are now $65.00 or so. Still, if you reload, and have more than a gun or two and want to know the max best they will do with any given load I just see no other way to go. Wish I had got one years before I did. I also have the adjustable base.

 

[Roller Delayed]

They have limitations. Some recoil operated autopistols and polymer frame guns will not group as accurately out of a Ransom as they will if aimed every shot. One gent on Berettaforum only got 3" groups at 25 yards using the Ransom on a 92A1. When he re-aimed the Ransom held pistol before every shot, the groups shrank to 1".

The Ransom rest can't control for slides that don't reset perfectly laterally the same every time, and seem to have a hard time keeping polymer frames in one place.

 

[Rastoff]

They have limitations. Some recoil operated autopistols and polymer frame guns will not group as accurately out of a Ransom as they will if aimed every shot. One gent on Berettaforum only got 3" groups at 25 yards using the Ransom on a 92A1. When he re-aimed the Ransom held pistol before every shot, the groups shrank to 1".

The Ransom rest can't control for slides that don't reset perfectly laterally the same every time, and seem to have a hard time keeping polymer frames in one place.

Then they weren't using the rest properly.

Even with a rest like this the aim/sights need to be checked prior to every shot. When fired, it will still move, it's supposed to. So, you can't just fire a gun three times in succession and expect a good group. The gun must be checked for aim every time.

 

[Skeet 028]

I got one in an estate for a very little bit. It had never been used. Came with adapters for 5 different handguns. I used it to check my 1911s and the Large frame S&Ws.....and my 41. It can be a valuable tool...but not for me. I am not a target type shooter and to be honest can't take advantage of the accuracy inherent in some of my handguns(rifles too for that matter). I sold it after a month or so. I must admit...the 41 was extremely accurate with the 7 3/8 inch bbl. Since I had 4 bbls for it I sold the long bbl. The Ransome is a good tool but to be honest it is mostly for severely anal types of shooters. JMO We can't usually hold well enough to take advantage of the accuracy built into our firearms

 

[mike campbell]

I reported on my Ransom testing of 4" model 66 back in July. I was able to show that I can put 10 shots in < 2" at 50 yd with my 66.....and that's with just one bullet and 3 different powders ... imagine all the possible combinations of a dozen bullets and 20 powders that I might try.

There is definitely a learning curve and I suggest one read all they can on the subject before using it the first time. There are principles involved that, if not understood, will lead to frustration and false conclusions.

For instance, the over arching concept is "returning to battery." Understand what that means.

Understand you may fire as many as 30-40 rounds in preparation for shooting the first group with a different gun.

ALL groups should be round ... it's a law of the shooting universe. That's why 10+ shot groups are preferred....to give that random, round group shape enough opportunity to develop. Understand what vertical and horizontal stringing is telling you ... then fix it.

There is no aiming point or "bullseye" necessary other than to get the group "on paper." You are shooting for precision, not accuracy ... understand the difference. There is no point in checking the sights after every shot. If you've properly anchored the rest and used good technique in fire control and re-setting, the sights will be pointing at exactly the same spot. If not, you have a major foul-up and it will be obvious on paper; you won't have to check the sights to know it.

If you're testing a 1911, research a "Marvel cut." Understand what it is and how it relates to the fact the first shot from a 1911, or any shot "hand fed" should not be included in the group. If you plan to shoot more than the number of rounds a magazine holds ( such as 10-shot groups with 8 round mags) learn to shoot a partial mag, drop it, and insert a new loaded magazine while the chamber is closed on a live round.

To begin, insert a loaded mag, hand chamber a round and shoot 1 or 2. Check to see if they are located on paper about where you want. If possible, DO NOT, move the gun/rest to re-aim, but rather put up a fresh piece of paper centered over the group and proceed to shoot for group. See for yourself that the first, hand-fed round, would usually (but not always) constitute a flier.

If you're a handloader who ENJOYS load testing, you'll have fun. If you're not much into testing/experimenting, but just looking for "the answer", you'd be better off paying someone to test your ammo.

If you don't already use a chronograph regularly, Id suggest you're nowhere near nerdy enough to invest in a Ransom Rest.

Ransom testing a Model 66

 

[Rastoff]

If you don't already use a chronograph regularly, Id suggest you're nowhere near nerdy enough to invest in a Ransom Rest.

You may have a very good point.

Also, consider one of these:

Hands down the easiest chronograph to use. They run about $550-$600, but much better than any other chrono.

 

[Roller Delayed]

Then they weren't using the rest properly.

Even with a rest like this the aim/sights need to be checked prior to every shot. When fired, it will still move, it's supposed to. So, you can't just fire a gun three times in succession and expect a good group. The gun must be checked for aim every time.

There is no aiming point or "bullseye" necessary other than to get the group "on paper." You are shooting for precision, not accuracy ... understand the difference. There is no point in checking the sights after every shot. If you've properly anchored the rest and used good technique in fire control and re-setting, the sights will be pointing at exactly the same spot. If not, you have a major foul-up and it will be obvious on paper; you won't have to check the sights to know it.

Clearly there is some dissent on how to properly use a Ransom rest, but I think it is important to understand that the rest assumes a permanent (fixed) or very repeatable relationship between barrel and frame. So with revolver or SIG P210, you can treat the rest like an artillery piece and fire at blank paper looking for a group. The sights can't/won't wander.

But with pistols that can allow the sights to migrate shot to shot, if you want to know how accurate the gun is going to be when aimed, you're going to need to verify point of aim shot to shot. And while this may not seem "right", human beings never accurately fire guns without sighting, so using the sights is reasonable. It just isn't necessary with some firearms because of the way they function.

 

[rkittine]

I recently got the rest along with specific mounts for 5 pistols. I have not yet tried it. I do have a Lab Radar and love it for bench rest rifle shootings but not for handgun shooting.

Bob

 

[H Richard]

My one little gun club bought one about 20 years ago for club use. Our policy was if you wanted to test a pistol there were no adapter for, you bought the adapter and it became the property of the club. It only gets drug out and used about every other year, but really can show you what your gun and load will do.

 

[rubiranch]

I have a chance to pick one up for next to nothing but after reading all these posts its sounds much more involved than I think I'll ever be.

It belonged to my brother. He shot in competitions, loved target shooting and did tons of reloading.

Me??? I shoot rabbits and paper plates with ammo I buy at the store. LOL

Thanks for all the info.

 

[Kurusu]

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to go ahead and get it.

I have a couple of guns I'd like to have right on the money.

Hopefully when I know its not the gun I'll try harder.

Beware of this. There are guns that excell in the Ransom rest but can be a deception in "real World" shooting. The Walther P.38 comes to mind. Any P.38 in reasonable condition will make cloverleaf groups in the Ransom rest. But, since the rear and front sights are mounted on different moving parts some will still shoot cloverleaf groups off hand and others will shoot 4 inch groups if they are "slack" in the tolerances. And it won't be your fault.


Edit. Now if you want to test your reloads. The Ransom rest is marvellous.

 

[Golddollar]

You're probably right. I just figure I need all the help I can get.

It does give you confidence in your equipment when you have proof on paper that your target .45 can put 10 shots into 1.4 inches at 25 yards. Over 20 years later and I still have the target.

 

[chief38]

I've seen one in use but have not personally used one. To me they really don't mean too much. I judge a gun on how I can actually shoot it, not how it does from a machine rest. If it were to print 1" groups at 50 feet but I was only able to achieve 5" groups with the same gun held in my hands, I would not buy it because it didn't work for me.

I suppose for advertising inherent accuracy, comparisons of guns (where you want to eliminate shooter error, variances or fatigue) or ammo testing it makes perfect sense and s probably a great tool to use.

 

[Golddollar]

I suppose for advertising inherent accuracy, comparisons of guns (where you want to eliminate shooter error, variances or fatigue) or ammo testing it makes perfect sense and s probably a great tool to use.

It definitely is a great tool for ammunition testing. I saved the test targets from over 20 years ago, and looking at them now I see one target where 10 shots went into a nice round 1.5 inch group at 25 yards, and an increase of 1/10th of a grain of powder opened the group up into a strung out 3.0 inch group. This was with a Colt Government Model that was customized by John Giles, one of the old time pistolsmiths.