Rare 1923 DWM commercial Luger...

[bc1023]

I have an interest in Lugers, but I make no claim to be an expert.

I do find discussions such as this to be very informative. How can we learn if we don't make comparisons and discuss facts and opinions?

There is a tendency for these discussions to become emotional. That's a shame. Remember we are only talking about a machine, not somebody's first-born.

It harms the discussion for the eagle image to have disappeared from the first post.

When the issue of authenticity arose, I did download the eagle image so I could compare with other eagle images on the internet as suggested. This informative discussion is destroyed without that image. Here is the image of the American Eagle that was posted in the original post and then taken down:

Curl

Once again, do the same thing to another 1923 American Eagle Luger. Magnify it all the way in with an iPhone and then scale it back.

We still don't have another image to compare it with and I'm waiting for 2152 to put his money where his mouth is.

 

[bc1023]

Here are two more pictures while we're at it...

This gun was absolutely never reblued. The Stoeger rollmarks are correct.

 

[italiansport]

Here are two more pictures while we're at it...

I personally think you Luger is fine. However I am in no way an expert and if you want a definitive answer I'd recommend you post it over on Jan Still's Luger forum where the real experts reside. I suspect you'll get an answer in short order.
Jim

Activity Stream - Jan C Still Luger Pistols Central Powers Axis Pistols Discussion Boards From Gunboards.com

 

[bc1023]

Here are some images for 1923 American Eagle Lugers. While I'm sure much better cameras were used as compared to my cell phone, I'm trying to see all this extra detail.

However, until we can get another and magnify the image all the way in so we can see every wayward line and mark, its not going to mean anything.

 

[bc1023]

Here's another that sold...

Detail??







One more...

 

[clang444]

Well, this one looks different then the OPs:

Rare 1923 Stoeger Model DWM American Eagle Luger with Rare A. F. Stoeger Markings and Leather Holster

The eagle's body between the shield and the tail feathers has 3 cross hatches on it while the one posted here looks to be recessed.

The RIA auction with the gold washed eagle also looks to have cross hatches while the other RIA auction looks more like the OPs.

I have no idea which is the real one. This is getting to be about as much fun as determining if a Colt box is real or not.

 

[bc1023]

I honestly think they were just done differently at different times is all. I also have a 1970's Mauser Parabellum Luger with the American Eagle and it looks different than any of these.

 

[2152hq]

If you would go those RockIsland auction links you posted (#15) and have refered to several times and instead of simply clicking on the picture of the top of the pistols shown,,just take your cursor and hold it over the pic and the Am/Eagle. It will give you a very large and clear detailed photo of the image.
The one on the Artillery doesn't help much as it's partially obscured by the site and the pic is dark. #'s 2 and 3 in you post, as I already pointed out show the A/E beautifully. Plus these are from the same period.
There are at least 4 different dies shown to have been used starting from the early preWWI period. But the detail differences are small and most people wouldn't notice them.

If you can't by side by side comparison see the obvious differences, ,,,then it's not necessary to go any further.

Everything here so far has been pics you've provided,,and they easily show the differences if you know what to look for. I've tried to tell you what those small details are and what methods were used to make them,,both originally and not.
It's supposed to be a discussion,but I guess not. Then no one learns a thing.
Good Day.


..."I'm not a Luger collector or historian, but this is one of the nicest vintage examples I've ever seen."...

 

[bc1023]

If you would go those RockIsland auction links you posted (#15) and have refered to several times and instead of simply clicking on the picture of the top of the pistols shown,,just take your cursor and hold it over the pic and the Am/Eagle. It will give you a very large and clear detailed photo of the image.
The one on the Artillery doesn't help much as it's partially obscured by the site and the pic is dark. #'s 2 and 3 in you post, as I already pointed out show the A/E beautifully. Plus these are from the same period.
There are at least 4 different dies shown to have been used starting from the early preWWI period. But the detail differences are small and most people wouldn't notice them.

If you can't by side by side comparison see the obvious differences, ,,,then it's not necessary to go any further.

Everything here so far has been pics you've provided,,and they easily show the differences if you know what to look for. I've tried to tell you what those small details are and what methods were used to make them,,both originally and not.
It's supposed to be a discussion,but I guess not. Then no one learns a thing.
Good Day.


..."I'm not a Luger collector or historian, but this is one of the nicest vintage examples I've ever seen."...

Every one of those pictures was from a supposed 1923 AE Luger, not a pre-WWI model. Some are different than others.

Until you provide what I'm asking for and we can compare apples to apples, this discussion has zero merit anyway. I consider it over.

Good day.

 

[CptCurl]

In post #15 above, there are three links to Rock Island auction sales. For the best side-by-side comparison, here are crops of the eagles in each auction. Detail is somewhat lacking, but this is what was there.

Here's the eagle on the artillery from the first link:

Exceptionally Rare DWM Model 1923 American Eagle Commercial Artillery Luger Pistol with A. F. Stoeger New York Retailer Markings

Here's the eagle from the second link:

Rare 1923 Stoeger Model DWM American Eagle Luger with Rare A. F. Stoeger Markings and Leather Holster

Here's the eagle from the third link:

Outstanding and Rare DWM 1923 "American Eagle" Luger with Desirable A. F. Stoeger Markings and Leather Holster

And here's the OP's eagle:

Finally, for what it's worth, here's a detail of the eagle on my Model 1900 I posted some years ago at this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firear...r-variety-dwm-1900-american-eagle-7-65mm.html

It's an interesting discussion. I am no expert at all. I wouldn't be able to differentiate a genuine 1923 Stoeger from a fake, and I certainly express no opinion as to the authenticity of the OP's Luger.

Curl

 

[bc1023]

I looked at it that way too, but we still need a magnified image of another 1923. When I took the picture, the Eagle was as big as my screen and I then sized it down. That's why you see so much more detail.

In the meantime, take the second pic I posted, crop it to just the eagle.

I will say that some eagles look different than others. They don't all use the same stamp. In fact, the one right above mine looks like the same stamp.

 

[vmumford]

In post #15 above, there are three links to Rock Island auction sales. For the best side-by-side comparison, here are crops of the eagles in each auction. Detail is somewhat lacking, but this is what was there.

Here's the eagle on the artillery from the first link:

Exceptionally Rare DWM Model 1923 American Eagle Commercial Artillery Luger Pistol with A. F. Stoeger New York Retailer Markings

Here's the eagle from the second link:

Rare 1923 Stoeger Model DWM American Eagle Luger with Rare A. F. Stoeger Markings and Leather Holster

Here's the eagle from the third link:

Outstanding and Rare DWM 1923 "American Eagle" Luger with Desirable A. F. Stoeger Markings and Leather Holster

And here's the OP's eagle:

Finally, for what it's worth, here's a detail of the eagle on my Model 1900 I posted some years ago at this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firear...r-variety-dwm-1900-american-eagle-7-65mm.html

It's an interesting discussion. I am no expert at all. I wouldn't be able to differentiate a genuine 1923 Stoeger from a fake, and I certainly express no opinion as to the authenticity of the OP's Luger.

Curl

This seams to clear everything up for me. Thanks Curl.

 

[H P Bushrod]

I picked this up last week. I found it at my local shop in superb condition. As you would expect on a commercial model, all parts match. 30 Luger is the caliber.

Here's some info:

https://books.google.com/books?id=p...6AEwDQ#v=onepage&q=1923 stoeger luger&f=false

Less than 1000 were built. They were produced for export to the United states after WWI. I'm not a Luger collector or historian, but this is one of the nicest vintage examples I've ever seen.

That's one beautiful Luger! Still looking to add one to my collection. Enjoy!