Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity

[1sailor]

I have wanted a .22 Hornet for a long time but for some reason anything chambered in Hornet is either a rifle I'm not at all interested in or it's beautiful but expensive. I've decided that it might make sense to go with .223 and just load it down to Hornet velocities. My max range would be about 150 to 200 yards at most with the majority of my shots being under 100 yards. More concerned with poking holes in paper than varmints. My concern is that the rate of twist for a .223 may be all wrong for a Hornet load. Most of the Hornets I've looked at had a twist rate between 1:14 to 1:16 while the 223's were much faster with around 1:8 to 1:9. Is this an issue I'm making up in my head or might it be a real concern for me. Any info would be appreciated before I plunk down any cash. Thanks

 

[kenjen]

I have t/c contender in 223 and it has a 1:14 twist and shoots the 40gr. bullet a lot better than the 55gr. and up

 

[dave1918a2]

Have You looked at the CZ's in hornet? Good looking and accurate.

 

[Cdog]

It’s the length more than weight that determines optimum twist. I haven’t looked in a while but turnbolt rifles with 1/12” were common not too far back.

You should be able to load with H4895 down to lower velocities.

Spin drift at lower velocities inside 200 yds should be negligible.

Hypothecating because I haven’t tried it with short light bullets, faster, twist, and low velocities.

 

[m75rlg]

I have used the following:

150 divided by the length of the bullet in calibers = rate of twist in calibers.

multiple by caliber = rate of twist in inches.

This formula was developed by Sir Alfred Greenhill circa 1879.

 

[H Richard]

An alternative is the .222 Remington. Most with a 1 in 12, and a 52 gr bullet is deadly in it. .222 was the bench-rest king for many years, so it is no slouch in accuracy. I have a Sako sporter, and it takes Prairie dogs out to 200 yards +. Light easy to pack, smooth as silk. 4198 was made for it.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I am a 22 Hornet fan! If you plan on any cartridge shooting 35 A-Max to 50 grain boat-tip bullets you need a 1:12 or slower twist. Hornet brass of best Quality is hard to get in the best of times. I found Nosler 22 Hornet brass at Midway about 3 years ago. Their "Ready to load" quality, is all within .001 in OAL and the primer pockets are trued, and the flash holes are uniformed and deburred. They are sold in 100 count boxes that all weigh within .1 grain or better (my last batch were within .05 grain)

I also bought a 250 count bag or "Need Prepared" quality. After I did the prep work they were ALL within .1 grain.

I also use their (Nosler) 221 Fireball brass, it is so much better than any Remington brass I came across. It was the Ready to load quality (and 2 boxes of Nosler loaded Ammo.

I believe both of these brasses were Midway exclusive products.

Both the Hornet and the Fireball have exceeded my dreams in 10" Contenders and my 24" rifle (1958 Savage 340). The rifle gets 1/4" groups at 100 yards, using Hornady 35 grain Hornet bullet at 3100 fps, at 3150 the group is 1" and at 3200 it is 2". (Using Accurate 1680)

If you want to shoot 55 gr FMJ/BT military bullets you will need a 1:10 barrel. With the Hornady FMJ, don't expect better than 1 to 1.5 inch groups or worse at Hornet velocities (2200 fps in a rifle)!

A number of people I know tried Little Gun in Hornet, 218 Bee and 221 Fireball, and all had cases rupture well below max load. The time proven powder for 45 semi spitzer bullets, has been IMR 4227 since Wheelan Townsend converted 22 WCF to the smokeless 22 Hornet. Lighter bullets seem to preform best wit A 1680 or 4227 (some people like 2400, but I got better performance/accuracy with 4227!)

Lastly, one of my friends has a Super 14" Contender in 22 Hornet. He swears he gets the tiniest groups with his pistol, and he dose! But he sacrificed velocity for that accuracy! He is shooting about 1300fps. My 22 RF Super 14 does that with R100 RWA ammo and I don't spend the time loading!

Ivan

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Have You looked at the CZ's in hornet? Good looking and accurate.

I will second this advice. CZ offers a superior quality rifle at a very reasonable price point.

 

[1sailor]

I do like the CZ's and the 527's are on my list. I currently own a CZ 22. They don't seem to allow much bolt clearance when installing a scope though and I don't recall there being a lot of options for mounts. I'm at an age where considering a scope has become more important to me.

 

[fredj338]

You cant really over stabilize a bullet so a faster twist will help with reduced loads imo.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The 223 is a very good round that comes in many bullet weights, and no mater what your barrel twist..............

It can be "Down loaded" to Hornet speeds with the right powder or using heavier bullets.
No need to go out and buy a new rifle, just to down load to the smaller caliber loading.
That just does not make any sense..... unless you have lots of money and room in the safe.

 

[1sailor]

You misread my post. I do not own a Hornet or anything in 223. Merely seeking some info to help steer me in the right direction. And no, I don't have lots of money.

 

[fredj338]

You misread my post. I do not own a Hornet or anything in 223. Merely seeking some info to help steer me in the right direction. And no, I don't have lots of money.

If you want something reloadable that is efficient & more than a 22mag, the hornet makes sense. A 223 downloaded will do the same thing with cheaoer brass but not as efficiently, you use more powder. You could even use pistol powders & get down to 22lr vel with 40-45gr bullets.

 

[Nevada Ed]

+1 on the .223 .

Be it pistol or rifle, there is a lot of loading data, materials out there and maybe

a used rifle that might be in a rack at one of your sporting goods stores at a good price?

Good hunting.

 

[shocker]

On a budget, I'd go 223. According to my Speer #14 manual, a starting charge of most powders with a 40 or 45 gr bullet gives equivalent velocities to a Hornet.
It does warn about pushing thin jacketed varmint bullets too fast in 1 in 7 barrels. They recommend a limit of 2800 fps for such. I'd look at something like a Savage Axis with 1 in 9 twist. I know it's a cheap gun with synthetic stock but the paper won't know the difference.

 

[mtgianni]

The rate of twist will not affect slowing down the bullet to hornet speeds. Get a 223, set it up with 50-55 gr bullets. Any twist from 1 in 12 to 1 in 7 should stabilize those weights. Starting loads should be very close to Hornet loads. If not set it up by the highest acceptable accuracy with the noise level you like most.

 

[1sailor]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the faster rate of twist on the .223 will not adversely effect the accuracy of bullets loaded to Hornet speeds. That was my only real concern here. With the huge difference in twist rates I wondered if it would cause an accuracy issue with the slower bullets fired from a .223.

 

[mtgianni]

Pick a powder with the start loads approaching hornet loads and you will do fine.