RCMP .455 SECOND MODEL

[wbaad]

Hi all,
I acquired a smith and wesson 2nd model hand ejector serial #15xxx and noticed there is remnants on the butt oF "MP".
There are a couple weird things like no.455 caliber marked on the barrel (which is numbered to the .455 cylinder) and the british proof marks showing it was sent to england at some point.
This gun was definately carried A LOT and is finish challenged. The grips are even worn more on the right than the left.

Did the NWMP/RCMP use any surplus guns?
Why is there no caliber on the barrel?
Why do the patent dates go earlier than my other HE?

any help would be appreciated

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

What is RCMP? Royal Crown Military Police?

 

[wbaad]

ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE after 1926
previously known as
NORTH WEST MOUNTED POLICE

 

[Buford57]

Not all .455 HE 2nds were caliber marked.

 

[wbaad]

interesting. Anybody know the approximate year of mfg?

 

[22hipower]

Some 69,000 were made between 1915 and 1917 with some 15,000 going to Canada and the remainder to Britain according to the S&W Catalog. There seems to be a wide range of markings and finish is often well worn; having been carried through WWI and possibly WWII as well most should be well worn. If you use the search function you'll find several posts relating to the British acceptance and other stamps. Finding one in unmolested condition (still in 455 Webley) is a definite plus. I have 29,954 which I haven't shot yet. . . but will as soon as I find some 455 ammo. Sorry, can't help with the possible RCMP marking. I think the 1917s that went to the RCMP were 45LC although they probably could have gotten some of the 455s too.

 

[wbaad]

Thanks for the info.
the MP on the butt is a little faint, almost looks like they tried to remove the property stamp off the gun (and removed the S/N from the butt).
I'm sure this gun has a few stories if it could talk.

 

[wbaad]

Does anybody have photos of property stamps on these guns?

 

[824tsv]

I'm sorry I'm late to the party here. The MP stamp on the butt is a standard marking for RCMP firearms. From that generation I have mostly seen MP marked Colt New Service revolvers. Hope this helps.

 

[Texas Star]

I believe that for a few years before the NWMP became RCMP in 1920 (not 1926, as stated in a prior post) , they were known as the Royal NW Mounted Police. This would have been during the reign of King Edward VII or King George V. I'm almost sure that George V was on the throne by 1920.

Many Mounted Police items, not just handguns, were/are marked just as MP. This included rifles and saddle blankets. Sometimes, the letters actually touch. They semi-merge.

Some years ago, I wrote to RCMP HQ in Ottawa and was sent some photos of Model 10 .38 and other revolvers that I wanted for a magazine article. They included a typed history of the Force that I think a recruit had to type as part of his training in the heritage of the outfit. And as a boy, I read a Classic Comics book about the history of the Force. Quite interesting. As a USAF cop stationed at a base in Newfoundland, I interfaced with the RCMP and found them to be a little on the formal and serious side, but not too bad, otherwise. I later met a constable with their famous Musical Ride at the Texas State Fair. My kids and I talked with him for about an hour as he groomed his mount. He was pretty easygoing. Nice guy, who was from Calgary, Alberta.

The Force now uses S&W DA-only 9mm pistols, but is rumored to be seeking a new sidearm.

The S&W .455 revolvers were never adopted by RCMP, but some guns were acquired from regional and local police who were absorbed by the Force. Their offical sidearm in that era was the Colt New Service in both .455 and in .45 Colt. The .455's were issued in western provinces; the .45's in the east. I cannot say why two calibers were used. Perhaps WW I production needs mandated buying some .455's, as those were also procured in large numbers for the British Army.

 

[zywina]

Send me the serial number, and i will check the number and see if it is one of there guns. Therre is an RCMP/RNWMP data bank on there issiued gun with serial number range. A good friend is a a RCMP, and has all the numbers I can check for yah!

Cheers Dale Z in Canada

 

[Hondo44]

wbaad,

Have you confirmed which cartridge actually fits the chambers-45 Colt or 455 MK I & Mk II (& Webley)?

A very brief history of the RCMP including the brief interaction with 2nd model HEs:

1873 North West Mounted Police (NWMP) created.

1904 'Royal' was bestowed upon them, RNWMP. The Colt New Service was 1st ordered, and they were chambered in .455 Eley & re-ordered 3 more times thru 1914.

1918 they switched to the .45 Colt chambered NS. This is the period that 724 S&W 455 Mk II Hand Ejector 2nd Models chambered in 45 Colt were ordered by the RNWMP. Pg 203 H of S&W.

1920 RNWMP merged w/the Dominion Police Force to become a Canadian wide force, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).

1920 thru 1942 45 Colt NS revolvers were re-ordered exclusively except for 1932 when the last batch of 455 Eleys was ordered. To solve the issue of two different cartridges, all 45 Colts were moved to eastern Canada and all 455 Eleys to west of Thunder Bay in Northwest Ontario.

1954 all .45 caliber revolvers were retired and the S&W .38 Spl Military and Police (Pre mod 10) was adopted.

1964 retired .45 caliber revolvers were first offered to Force members for $12 ea. Then the remainder were sold to the general public.

Revolvers were stamped with variations of the RCMP letters. Of the 3,195 Colt NS revolvers, only 2800 were actually stamped with an issue number.

 

[JustinL]

This was relayed to me by a former RCMP constable (tenure 1960s-1970s)

"I previously owned three of these revolvers. Two were cal .455 and one .45 Two had the C with broad arrow. One I bought almost direct from RCMP when they sold them off. Mine was assigned to the PB Carnduff which was a 40 foot ship stationed at Sault Ste Marie, ON. (I was stationed there) Marine members were not issued side arms but the ship had firearms. The one from the CARDUFF had been previously been on issue to the Nova Scotia Provincial Police and guess when RCMP absorbed the NSPP, they got their firearms and this one ended up on CARDUFF. The 4 men stationed on this ship had first crack at the firearm, but none wanted it, and so I talked the engineer to put in a bid and he won. He of course sold the gun to me. It was stamped on the butt NSPP."

 

[zoisrus]

Does anybody have a list of serial numbers of the 724 Canadian HE 2nd 45 colt?

Chris

 

[Hondo44]

Chris,

No serial # list known, Pg. 203 H of S&W.

 

[wordsmith]

74301 is one, a Canadian-shipped .455 HE 2nd Mod. in .45 Colt. Most of the 720+ are in the 70K range, though there are some earlier... in the 40K range... that didn't go to Canada.

Forum member Jim Fisher has one in the 40K range that we found a few years back, it has an interesting story of it and 14 others mfg. (if my recall is correct) at the same time.

Perhaps Jim will join in this thread...

David