Real ID
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The last time I renewed my license I ended up with a REAL ID in the mail.
Bunch of BS is what it is. I have to further prove that I'm a US citizen to get on a plane.
We can thank the states that give licenses to anyone.
We can thank the states that give licenses to anyone.
A "Real ID" doesn't prove you are a US citizen. It just proves you are who you say you are. A passport will work. A US state issued driver's license that qualifies as a real ID just means that in addition to your ability drive, you have established your identity via acceptable documentation. (My wife is Japanese, a permanent resident/green card holder, and has an Oregon "real ID" driver's license.)
There are a lot of people in this world who mean to kill Americans in any way that they can. A passenger plane, as we've learned, is a great way to kill a lot of people. If you definitively know who people are, it is far less likely that a mass murderer is going to get on a plane, whether to use it as a bomb or to get here and develop networks of like-minded mutants on our shores.
It is NOT one world; in many countries where we have people who would kill us, there are few birth records, dates of birth are estimates, names are in 5 parts and often octupules, and there are no biometrics (fingerprints, iris scan, DNA profile, facial recognition photo). Most are one change of planes from a major US destination. In Mogadishu, I could fly to Dubai, Doha, or Istanbul then directly to most major US hubs. Same-same Baghdad, Amman, Georgia, Armenia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Mali, and on and on.
Evil flourishes in the dark and in anonymity.
It is NOT one world; in many countries where we have people who would kill us, there are few birth records, dates of birth are estimates, names are in 5 parts and often octupules, and there are no biometrics (fingerprints, iris scan, DNA profile, facial recognition photo). Most are one change of planes from a major US destination. In Mogadishu, I could fly to Dubai, Doha, or Istanbul then directly to most major US hubs. Same-same Baghdad, Amman, Georgia, Armenia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Mali, and on and on.
Evil flourishes in the dark and in anonymity.
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When there's millions and millions of illegals in the US, and they came from counties that have few birth records, dates of birth are estimates, names are in 5 parts and often octupules, and there are no biometrics and they are already here, how does anyone know those people are who they say they are? Then, we find out, through DOGE, that the US .gov gave millions social security numbers, have driver's licenses, and even allowed to be in LE. What's the point of "REAL ID"?
It seems some are more equal than others.
It seems some are more equal than others.
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Biometrics, especially fingerprints and iris scans at every point of contact for employment, documents, banking, emergency hospital treatment, driver's licenses for illegals (where those are allowed) provide a starting point for internal identification which is also useful for external identification through a variety of means, including battlefield forensics, human sources, and a host of other international information sources.
DOGE fired nearly the entire field operations staff of the NNSA then had to very quickly find and rehire them - pardon me if I don't rely on them much for complex issues.
DOGE fired nearly the entire field operations staff of the NNSA then had to very quickly find and rehire them - pardon me if I don't rely on them much for complex issues.
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This is correct… as long as you have a valid admission to the US, you can get a Real ID.
I've been listening to people complain regularly about Real ID for the past few weeks, and then have to tell them it is only for travel WITHIN the US and entrance to some Federal buildings… not for entry into the US.
But the arguments about it have gone on for the past 2 or so years. Everyone wants to tell us that the logo on their license means it is an enhanced license. Nope… only 5 states have them, and I'd see MRZ lines on the back of it. We had a guy from a less busy port send us an email telling us about Real ID… we all looked at one another shocked that he felt we didn't know anything about the program. Unfortunately, there are people who don't take the time to understand changes in policy, inside and outside of the government.
Personally, I wish the enhanced license program was funded to the states for implementation… then have Real ID as the default with non-Real ID for cases that don't fit into the other two. That way people could get a WHTI document easier for travel instead of just arguing about what the little gold star on their license means.
I get asked about upgrading to Real ID each time I renew my license. And I tell them no, each time. It's only $25 more which I waste that much without hesitation elsewhere, but I already have multiple documents that work (and to be fair, I fly armed when I fly… so it really isn't that big of a concern for me).
I actually had words with the supervisor at the BMV the last time I went, because the guy behind the counter told me I needed to get a Real ID to come back into the US. I told her that they really need to start understanding the program instead of giving bad information that gets people pissed when me and my coworkers send them inside to confirm their citizenship.
But this is the same location that demanded from a coworker who was born in Puerto Rico that he needed to show his naturalization paperwork. Had his passport on him, and they gave him grief about getting it illegally. Have to love northern ME…
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My Navy retired ID is as good as it gets I believe.
HardToHandle
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Congress passed the law in 2005. That was three years before we had iPhones. Taylor Swift was in high school. Pope John Paul II Passed.
Any American citizen has had 20 years to comply or either persuade their Congressperson to the alter the law. Failing that, 20 years of deferring enforcing the federal law seems sufficient.
TSA won't accept it if it says "INDEF" on it.
Really? And why is that?
JET4
Member
I will use my TWIC card/badge to fly if I need to.
Originally Posted by vt_shooter View Post
TSA won't accept it if it says "INDEF" on it.
Got my answer: it's a software issue, the TSA software cannot read INDEF - an alpha in a numeric field. They are working on a fix.
'Indefinite' Defense Department IDs Inconvenience Air Travelers, May Be Dropped as Acceptable Identification | Military.com
TSA won't accept it if it says "INDEF" on it.
Got my answer: it's a software issue, the TSA software cannot read INDEF - an alpha in a numeric field. They are working on a fix.
'Indefinite' Defense Department IDs Inconvenience Air Travelers, May Be Dropped as Acceptable Identification | Military.com
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I've had mine for 10 years. How many times have they extended the deadline? lol
backwards fly over Nebraska adopted it in 2013... so shame on the rest of you states...
I don't think it is a state issue per se. People have to apply for it. For example, my wife's had a real ID DL since 2008 or so when she was issued her first US DL from Hawaii. She applied for it. I already a Hi DL, so when renewals came up, I just renewed in the old format.
Hawaii must have changed that, though, as I recall a friend in Hawaii telling me his 80 YO mom, born in Hawaii, had to come up with a birth certificate to renew. I think at that point HI DL renewals must have required conversion to a real ID.
When I got to Oregon in 2016, I turned in my non-real ID Hawaii DL, took a written exam and an eye test, and they gave me a non real ID Oregon DL. My wife didn't get around to applying for her Oregon DL until a couple of years later, and they swapped hers, along with an eye test and written exam, for an Oregon real ID DL.
In 2021 (?), renewing my Oregon DL, I took along my passport, paid a bit extra, and got an Oregon real ID DL.
By the way, what is this "enhanced DL" i see referred to above?
Hawaii must have changed that, though, as I recall a friend in Hawaii telling me his 80 YO mom, born in Hawaii, had to come up with a birth certificate to renew. I think at that point HI DL renewals must have required conversion to a real ID.
When I got to Oregon in 2016, I turned in my non-real ID Hawaii DL, took a written exam and an eye test, and they gave me a non real ID Oregon DL. My wife didn't get around to applying for her Oregon DL until a couple of years later, and they swapped hers, along with an eye test and written exam, for an Oregon real ID DL.
In 2021 (?), renewing my Oregon DL, I took along my passport, paid a bit extra, and got an Oregon real ID DL.
By the way, what is this "enhanced DL" i see referred to above?
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Enhanced Drivers Licenses: What Are They? | Homeland Security
Returning to the US last year from Italy, the CBP agent suggested it would be easier to go through the much shorter line when going through customs.
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Jeff423
US Veteran
I haven't flown out of the country for years, but I have a KTN number. Does that help at customs?
Yes. It most certainly torques me off! Our state charges extra for an "enhanced driver's license." We don't get Real ID. That's a bunch of hooey. I have a passport. I'll continue to use it when I travel. Since I already have a passport, I think the state should give me a "blessed" driver's license at no extra charge. It doesn't cost them much to verify my citizenship and include another image to the license. Just some computer run time.
For that matter, why should I have to pay for a passport? I'm a citizen. There's a mandate to "show our papers" yet the state and country charge for those papers. More taxes, pure and simple.
Grrrrrr....
OK.... I'm over it now.
Glynn863
Member
In Alabama I had to show proper paperwork to have "Veteran" added to my D/L. Since I've done that, I'm curious as to whether I can go to my local D/L office and just have the "star" added without additional paperwork.
When my Texas DL was automatically renewed a couple of years ago, it was switched from a Non-Real ID to a Real ID. I don't know how it happened, as I didn't do anything, and I didn't pay anything. Maybe it was automatic because I have a Texas License to Carry, but I'm not sure. In any case, it doesn't matter, as I intend to never set foot on an aircraft again.
Yes. It most certainly torques me off! Our state charges extra for an "enhanced driver's license." We don't get Real ID. That's a bunch of hooey. I have a passport. I'll continue to use it when I travel. Since I already have a passport, I think the state should give me a "blessed" driver's license at no extra charge. It doesn't cost them much to verify my citizenship and include another image to the license. Just some computer run time.
For that matter, why should I have to pay for a passport? I'm a citizen. There's a mandate to "show our papers" yet the state and country charge for those papers. More taxes, pure and simple.
Grrrrrr....
OK.... I'm over it now.
Enhanced licenses do work as Real ID. Just like a passport, passport card, Trusted Traveler card, etc.
The reason why it costs more is more things to confirm, more work to do it and more capabilities.
While it may be easy to just show a passport, you do realize that BMV, or whatever it's called in your state, aren't document experts. Some people might be able to distinguish a decently made fraudulent passport… others may not. Security program features, which costs money, prevent that. But it also means that the BMV needs to train their people to accomplish those tasks. I personally don't think anyone should be able to get an inaccurate document anywhere… but it is more of an issue if it is a Read ID or enhanced license.
Enhanced drivers licenses differ from the other options in two big features; MRZ and RFID. Both of those are pretty much international standards for documents. This technology is present in your passport… if it is current. Another reason why it costs more.
Enhanced drivers licenses are beneficial for people that don't have a need to shell out $130 for a passport. If they need a drivers license, and may go to Canada or Mexico… it might be worth it to spend an extra $30ish for an enhanced, just for the added benefits. Someone that travels internationally by air… they need a passport, so getting Real ID or enhanced drivers license isn't worth it.
For the "why should I have to pay for a passport," where is foreign travel in the Bill of Rights? No country in the world "gives" passports to its citizens. While some people think they are paying for THEIR passport, it still is property of the government that issued it. If you were born in the US, a birth certificate still proves you are a US citizen. If you're naturalized, you'd get a certificate stating as such. While those items can be used for a Real ID, that isn't the purpose of a Real ID. The Real ID is to be sure that the person it is issued to is the person it is issued to.
The "showing papers" in this argument is specifically for domestic air travel and entering some Federal buildings. Not really Nazi Germany… don't want to, don't fly or go into Federal buildings.
If you compare Real ID to WHTI… at least Real ID is going to be implemented. WHTI… I still get people handing my regular drivers license/birth certificate on a daily basis, when it was supposed to be changed since 2009. That's a piece of legislation I wish .GOV would finally get behind.
Thanks for the link, Mike.
How would that work returning from Europe if enhanced DL is only good for entry into the US from Canada and the Caribbean?
The enhanced DL, available in five states, which allows entry into the US from Canada and the Caribbean, as well as authorization to drive a car, seems to me to be a combination of real ID, state DL, and a US passport card. Sounds convenient, but would be of no advantage to me, though, as I don't enter the US from either region.
Do the Canadians and the Caribbean countries recognize the enhanced DL for entry into their countries?
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Edit: Screwball, thanks for the explanation above, posted while I was writing this post.
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Enhanced licenses don't do a thing in that regard…
That officer was touching on Global Entry with the Trusted Travel Program.
Official Trusted Traveler Program Website | Department of Homeland Security
Global Entry is pretty much a US only program. If you go to Canada, definitely recommend NEXUS. Costs the same, get the same benefits from Global Entry, but CBSA accepts it.
All of the Trusted Travel Programs give you TSA PreCheck and work as a Real ID.
You mean like Washington State? They can even sign up to vote...
The dumbest thing in the world was how during the height of the Covid spread the government didn't postpone the real ID until Covid mostly passed by. I remember long lines and crowded rooms with people packed in there to get their new Real ID because they knew it would be time consuming and a big hassle for 350 million people to go to the tag agency to get one. That probably spread Covid and caused more deaths than any other easily preventable reason.
