Recommendations for a Starter Progressive Press

From Post #51.

My reloading room is in question, seems the wife would like to move me into the bigger room against a small wall, BUT, 4' away is a gas hot water heater and furness in a closet, and it pulls air into the closet from the room/house.

I think I might not want to reload in that room-thoughts.

Still getting the press, hopefully this month (Feb).

Thanks,
Jim
 
To me the notion of a starter progressive kind of misses the point. If you really need a progressive, why buy something that really doesn't get the job done (read either Lee). No, buying a progressive means you want or need a high volume of ammo done in a short period of time w/ as little fuss as possible. That only spells Dillon IMO & exp.
Cost, sure, better things almost always cost more. COnsider reloading a long term investmen. I have been at it 35yrs now, still have my first ss press, still have my first progressive, a 550. So even buying a ridiculously expensive 650 w/ all the bells & whistles @ $1200, is only $5/month over 20yrs. What can you do today for $5/month & enjoy it? If you really need a progressive, buy once, Dillon stuff last forever & if it does break, it's free to fix. Over the 25yr life of one of my 550, it's never suffered anything major. Any small part that I usually broke, Dillon replaced w/o question.
On Dillon vs Hornady. The LNL is a good press, it is NOT a 650. Price them the same, they are within $50 of each other. The priming system alone on the 650 is worth the extra cost. IF you EVER want a case feeder, do NOT even consider the LNL. The 650 feeder is more reliable, two speed & quieter. Cost is with the case feeder, the 650 is actually a bit cheaper, depending of you score a good deal on the LNL or not. Yes, Hornady bribes you to buy their machine by giving you 500 bullets they choose, but it's not a bad deal. Autos indexing is no faster than manual, so I would probably opt for the 550 over the LNL if I never wanted a case feeder. If you just have to have auto indexing & never want the case feeder, then it's a slightly better press than the 650 as it runs fine manually feeding cases where the 650 is a bit of a PITA w/o the feeder. Still, the priming system of the 650 is soooo much better, it's worth the slight hassle of feeding cases by hand vs the LNL. I am also not a fan of the LNL bushing system. They come loose & you have to take out 4 dies to swap calibers instead of just swapping tool heads.
 
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I started reloading about a year ago and did a lot of research and reading and looking before buying anything. I ended up with the Hornady LNL progressive and glad I did. I also received all the advice about starting with a single stage then upgrading after gaining some experience. I'm glad I didn't do that. I believe it is just as easy to learn on a progressive as it is a single stage.

I had trouble with the auto indexing on the Hornady. It would not stay adjusted and I finally sent it back and they sent a whole new press within the week. I lost the primer slide spring when I was changing slides and called Hornady to order a new one. When I asked how much they just laughed and said no charge. I received two new springs in two days. Since then they have sent several small parts at no charge and they always arrive in two days. Overall their customer service has been great. The reps I've talked to have been knowledgeable, friendly, and they are native English speakers (from Nebraska I think). The Hornady has a lifetime guarantee just like the Dillon.

The Dillon has good reviews, but the price was just too high for the 650 with auto-indexing. The 550 price was comparable with the LNL, but it did not have auto-indexing and that is important to me.
 
Thanks, I didn't know the H-LNL had a life time warranty. And reading their site, it takes 5 min to change out dies. I figure, since the dies are set, you should be able to pop them on and out if needed like the Dillion tool head.

Does the H-LNL come w/dies for the caliber ordered?

I do need a auto index machine due to health reasons I won't go into now.

H-LNL is not available to purchase over the internet right now either.
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Reloading :: Metallic Reloading :: Presses and Kits :: Lock-N-Load® AP™

** Due to extremely high volume, the Lock-N-Load AP is not currently available for sale on the Internet. Please contact your local dealer, distributor or retailer. Thank you, and sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you. **
Click to expand...

Question, how do you like the powder drop AND adjustment on the H-LNL?

Thanks again all,
Jim
 
I was told other dies fit the Dillion 650.

What other MFG dies fit the Dillion 650 press?

Is it recommended to use other MFG dies (probably not), if so then why do people use other MFG dies, to save money?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Rollbar said:
I was told other dies fit the Dillion 650.

What other MFG dies fit the Dillion 650 press?

Is it recommended to use other MFG dies (probably not), if so then why do people use other MFG dies, to save money?

Thanks,
Jim
Click to expand...

Any die with a 7/8 - 14 thread will fit the Dillon. And some brands are less expensive. From the reports I read, most name brand dies will service you just fine. I seem to remember that Lee dies are a tad shorter than the others which can limit adjustment but you may want someone with more knowledge to verify it.
 
Lee dies work just fine EXCEPT, you may have to put the lock ring under the die plate rather than on top.

99.9% of my dies are Lee. All pistol ones are carbide and work just fine. My 223 dies are Lee as well but are not carbide.

I have both of my XL650s loaded right now with Lee carbide pistol dies. One in 45ACP and 40S&W.

Hope this helps.
 
Here is a good web site to determine the total cost involved in a Dillon purchase.

I was adding up the cost of what I wanted and it seems I can get two Square Deals for the price of a 650-just a thought.

One for .45acp & one for 38spl w/out the hassle of changing out the plat and primer stuff etc.

Dillon Precision Reloading Press Reviews
 
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Rollbar said:
Here is a good web site to determine the total cost involved in a Dillon purchase.

I was adding up the cost of what I wanted and it seems I can get two Square Deals for the price of a 650-just a thought.

One for .45acp & one for 38spl w/out the hassle of changing out the plat and primer stuff etc.

Dillon Precision Reloading Press Reviews
Click to expand...

Two SDB would still be half of a 650 in performance. A 650 w/ (2) caliber conversions & Lee dies would be cheaper than 2 sim equiped SDB & you never get a case feeder on the SDB. I would & did buy a 550 over the SDB. I would certainly buy a 650 over 2 SDB or the LNL. Sim equiped, the 650 is less than $100 more than a LNL. If you eventually go w/ a case feeder, the 650 is actaully about $20 cheaper. No free bullets, but you get a superior press. Buy quality once, you never replace it. IMO, Hornady is still trying to perfect the LNL. SOmeday they'll get it right, but it's not today.
 
I would love to hear how the 650 is superior to the LNL AP.

I run my LNL AP with a case feeder and once everything was adjusted it runs until my arm runs out of gas.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
I would love to hear how the 650 is superior to the LNL AP.

I run my LNL AP with a case feeder and once everything was adjusted it runs until my arm runs out of gas.
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Duh, it's BLUE. You're teachers were wrong when they said there is "no such thing as a stupid question." If you need additional proof I give you the following quotes:

"Buy Once, Cry Once"
"One word: Dillon"
"I drank the blue koolaid"
"No B.S. Warranty"
:rolleyes:
Good thing it is cold in Maine, the incoming "flames" will help.
 
I assume everyone here knows I'm not knocking Dillon one bit and agree they make a fine press.
 
novalty said:
Did your campaign team put you up to this? What office are you running for?? :p
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I just don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to say Dillon is junk because it's not.

But when I see the constant slamming of Hornady and how it's so inferior I always enjoy the explanation of how this is so.

I happen to think the quarter turn locking bushings for the dies is really quick, easy, precise, and makes for fast caliber changes. The fact that the powder measure is in its own bushing means it's easy to pull out to dump out the remainder of the powder and easy to clean off the press.

I love that the shell plate takes one socket cap screw to swap out to a new shell plate and the spring is easy to put back.

I love the zirc fittings for adding a shot of grease for super easy maintenance of the friction moving parts.

I love the half indexing on the upswing and other half of the indexing on the down swing as it makes for a nice smooth motion so powder is pretty hard to spill and bullets you set in the case don't fall over.

I love that the body of the press is a large wide open cast chunk of aluminum so it doesn't weigh a ton when I want to move it.

I love the quality vs. the cost of the entire setup. It also happens to have a full lifetime warranty like big blue and big green.

This is kind of subjective but I also love that a company that makes the components and makes the ammo also happens to make gear for those of us that choose to load their own. This may seem irrelevant to many people but I like that the same people that make top of the line ammo happen to offer gear that allows you to copy what they make. Big blue and big green don't make components or ammo.

I feel like the LNL AP has a heck of a lot going for it and the same way the various Dillon presses grew better over the years the Hornady presses are getting better over time as well.

So it just comes off as sounding borderline strange that big red takes the lashing it so seemingly doesn't deserve. But what do I know since I also find Lee products to be perfectly usable as well.
 
To imply that Dillons have been perfected is a stretch in every way! There are so many aftermarket improvements, and Dillon doesn't even offer them as options!

Case in point, bullet feeder! Hornady makes one, Dillon doesn't.

Case in point, XL650 shell plate bearing kit.

Case in point, modifications for spent primer collection.

Case in point, Skip's fabulous primer advance cam quick removal pin modification for the XL650.

Should I go on?

Remember, at last count, I have six Dillon presses.

:)
 
Skip Sackett said:
To imply that Dillons have been perfected is a stretch in every way! There are so many aftermarket improvements, and Dillon doesn't even offer them as options!

Case in point, bullet feeder! Hornady makes one, Dillon doesn't.

Case in point, XL650 shell plate bearing kit.

Case in point, modifications for spent primer collection.

Case in point, Skip's fabulous primer advance cam quick removal pin modification for the XL650.

Should I go on?

Remember, at last count, I have six Dillon presses.

:)
Click to expand...

I was trying really hard not to rub some of that in as I don't have much experience at all with a 650 but I've at least loaded a bit on the 550.

And I forgot to mention the fact that the spent primer collection on the LNL AP drops the primer straight down through a clear hose that I set a bucket under it. It works very well.

I'm not investing in any bullet feeder yet as I have yet to read of one that works with cast bullets. The sorter should work fine if you can use a stiff enough lube but the feeder die on the models I've seen uses a collet that I guess buggers the lead or lube and gets stuck.

And I think the "Mr. Bullet Feeder" is still the only one that does rifle bullets. I guess Hornady is still working on theirs as I have read several times it's supposed to be coming out.
 
I can though.....

Maximumbob54 said:
I was trying really hard not to rub some of that in as I don't have much experience at all with a 650.......
Click to expand...

Yeah, but, that isn't true of me. I own two of them and they are GREAT presses. Perfect? Um, not quite...Of course, now that I have made some really cool modifications to them, using my superior intellect (just fooling around), they are much closer!

:D

Here is that latest one I mentioned. Oh, by the way, the reason you need to do something like this is if you don't, even though there is no case present in the priming station, a primer still drops. After 2 or three, they end up on the floor. Not good! ;)

F838D28A.jpg

A5F8F4FC.jpg

6565F9C5.jpg

149529FD.jpg

1F666001.jpg

12EE63EC.jpg



This is another Skip modification:
XL650oldprimerattachment1.jpg

XL650oldprimerattachment2.jpg


Different version of the same:
XL650newprimerattachment1.jpg

XL650newprimerattachment2.jpg
 
The 650 will drop a primer even if there is already one there? I didn't know that.

The LNL AP has a little shuttle that rides in a groove. The hole in the shuttle feeds the primer to the piston that shoves in into the case. If the shuttle has a primer in it then the next primer has no room to drop so it just skips it.

The only trouble I had was the shuttle needed a tiny bit of polishing which was easy to do with some Mothers mag polish and just rubbing the shuttle back and forth for a minute. Now it's slick as a whistle and has never hung up again. Flaw? I guess but super easy to fix.
 
Skip, I don't understand the mod in the first few pics? Did you add that piece of metal and drill a hole to pin it in ? Is that piece of metal already on the press or did you order it?

Don't really like the idea of the 650 dropping an additional primer.

Question, do all Dillons do that?

Maybe it's the blue paint :)

Thanks,
Jim
 
The XL650 is the only Dillon press that does this. It is a design flaw, no doubt about it. The primers go around in a wheel. There are 8 or 10 in the wheel from the drop tube magazine to where they are used. If the wheel advances, which is done via the came that I can remove super fast ( :D ), and there is no case there, the next time the press goes up then the cam advances the primer wheel. If the primer is there and no case was, then it just goes until it drops onto a little shelf they did design! ;)

Not that big of a deal unless you are a mechanically challenged person, simply remove the cam if you have an empty slot or are setting up. No biggie.

At any rate........Both are great presses.
 
Skip, maybe you need to sell the design to Dillon :)

Question, is there another way to clean the brass besides a tumbler that is cheaper?

Thanks again for all the help everyone,
Jim
 
My LNL works flawlessly and it is fast. In fact I have to make an effort to slow down. The powder measure is amazingly accurate. It's rare to to find a powder charge off more than 0.1 grains and about 90% are dead on.

I had a problem with the first press I bought. It would not maintain indexing adjustment and I spent a lot of time on the phone with Hornady CS. I finally sent the press back and they sent a new one by next day air. I also lost a primer slide spring and broke the primer cam wire bracket. They sent new ones at no charge in two days. Overall their customer service has been great.

I've modified my loading procedure by using eight stages instead of five. I do this by breaking the process down into two phases. First I re-size, prime, and expand. Next I drop powder, check the powder, drop the bullet, seat, and then crimp.

I do this for several reasons. First and most important is I feel I can get 100% quality control of every round. In the first phase I visually check every primer for proper seating. Next is problem avoidance. The main problem I had when loading a complete round with every pull of the handle was getting powder under the primer slide or around the primer punch. This caused the press to lock up or a primer would not seat. The basic reason for the powder spill was my work bench would bounce just enough to spill powder. By separating the priming and powder drop functions I eliminated that problem. The extra stages also allow me to use the RCBS lock out die and I have become a firm believer in using that die. I also use the RCBS manual bullet feeder. It serves as kind of a speed break for me. The tube will hold 35 9mm or 25 .40 S&W bullets and when the tube is empty I weigh a powder charge and measure OAL. Finally the extra stages allow me to use a separate crimp stage (Lee FCD).

Normally I'll re-size prime and expand about 1,000 cases at a time and it goes really fast. I bought five primer pick up tubes so I can prime 1,000 cases in about an hour. It takes about as long to load the pick up tubes as it does to actually prime the cases.

When I start loading powder and bullets I disable the primer slide by removing the cam wire. This part also goes really fast. It takes longer to load the bullet tubes and check powder weights and measure OAL than it does to actually finish a round.
 
Question, is this a good scale?

Reason I ask is I don't know how to read a beam scale :o Well let me rephrase that. I don't know how to read one for reloading since I am just getting into it.

So my question still stands :p

Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders

Dillon-Web-Cat_0035_m.jpg


Thanks,
Jim

I tried to find a U-Tube video on the reading of one, but had no luck. Must be the blue paint right Skip :)
Dillon-Web-Cat_0046.jpg
 
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