14indy
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Just ordered a new 5" 40 cal ported performance center pistol and was wondering what you guys and gals recommend for red dot optics? I hate to pay $500+ for Leupold but looking for something around 2 - 3 hundred.
Red dot optics?
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billbunton
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My wife has the Deltapoint 3 MOA and loves it. I went with the Trijicon RM08 and love it (in fact, I'll be ordering another in the next week or so). We haven't tried any of the less expensive optics, sorry I can't recommend anything there.
I went through this and after firing the sights used by my Cop buddies I ended up with the Trijicon RMR. Here are the sights that co witness on the CORE. Burris 2 not 3, Docter 2, Trijicon RMR, J Point, and Deltapoint. I guarantee that you will buy sights until you get one that co-witnesses. Look at buying used. You may find one here on the for sale but the place you will find one is ar15.com on the Equipment Exchange. I found two I traded for, the MRDS (I will put this one on my SOCOM16) and the RMR4. There is a fellow there selling the Docter2 for $200 bucks and that might last you for a long time.
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If you're looking at the Trijicon RMR, I'd wait to see how the new Leupold Deltapoint Pro compares to the Trijicon RMR. One notable feature the Deltapoint Pro has over the RMR is that one can replace the battery without removing the sight from its base. If the Deltapoint Pro doesn't have any problems, Leupold should give Trijicon a run for their money.
Fishinfool
Member
For under $300, I can recommend the Burris Fastfire ll. I have one mounted on a .45 1911, and one on an AR-15. Both have been reliable thru a lot of rounds.
Larry
Larry
The RM04 uses NO battery. It's awesome. No need to rely on a battery when you use your firearm.
Also, the Deltapoint Pro will be close to $600 - PASS!
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/deltapoint-reflex-sights/deltapoint-pro/
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CORE is the model of the M&P ("Competition/Optics-Ready," or something like that) and co-witness refers to arranging the mounting of the optic in such a way that the red-dot and the iron sights of the pistol coincide - the red dot appears to be sitting on top of the front sight and the sights can be seen through the window of the optic.
Some think co-witness is very important. Others think it is basically useless, distracting, even a hindrance, on a competition pistol. Opinions about the necessity/utility of it vary.
14indy, I know it is tempting to economize but if you can swing it, the RMR seems to be the unit I hear the most satisfactory comments about on the M&Ps and Glocks.
CORE is the Competition Optics Ready version of the M&P with a cutout in the slide for a red dot sight. We imagine this is what you ordered. Otherwise there will be different mounting options for the red dot. Co-Witness means seeing your iron sights through your red dot. Some red dots co-witness others don't because of their height.
Arik
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After destroying a bunch of cheap red dots in run and gun type shooting I'm sticking with Aim point. I spent more in red dots then it cost for one Aim point. Buy once cry once.
First, if you don't have the CORE model, you either will be replacing iron sights with a red dot in which case co-witnessing is not an option. I tried that with a mounting plate on a Glock and did not like it. It sat unnaturally high and was harder to acquire good sight picture in daylight much less trying in a dark house, and there was no b/u if the red dot failed. Or you will have to have the slide machined out to fit the red dot.
I have the CORE model which has the machined recess for the red dot mount. The manufacturers of the red dot sights listed in the CORE manual don't all claim that they co-witness, and many have not tested it.
Where I ended up was with a Trijicon RMR 06 and I am pleased with co-witnessing with that arrangement. I can line up the full white dots of the rear sight with the front sight while viewing thru the RMR window.
I first looked at using a Bushnell Fastfire III, which I already had from another gun and liked. However, as posted in pics on this site, you can only "co-witness" the very top of the rear iron sight, not even the full white dot. I then considered the Leupold Delta Point2. Dimensions said it was going to be a little better co-witness, but my recollection is not as much as Trijicon and that battery life was not as long as the Trijicon. I considered waiting for the "new" Delta Point Pro that was coming out where you are able to replace the battery without removing the sight. But I talked to Leupold and got the dimensions. For the Pro the plate is thicker than the Delta Point 2, so you lose co-witness of the sight.
You can usually get the red dot sights on some sort of deals online like Optics Planet or Amazon and save some bucks vs. MSR.
I have the CORE model which has the machined recess for the red dot mount. The manufacturers of the red dot sights listed in the CORE manual don't all claim that they co-witness, and many have not tested it.
Where I ended up was with a Trijicon RMR 06 and I am pleased with co-witnessing with that arrangement. I can line up the full white dots of the rear sight with the front sight while viewing thru the RMR window.
I first looked at using a Bushnell Fastfire III, which I already had from another gun and liked. However, as posted in pics on this site, you can only "co-witness" the very top of the rear iron sight, not even the full white dot. I then considered the Leupold Delta Point2. Dimensions said it was going to be a little better co-witness, but my recollection is not as much as Trijicon and that battery life was not as long as the Trijicon. I considered waiting for the "new" Delta Point Pro that was coming out where you are able to replace the battery without removing the sight. But I talked to Leupold and got the dimensions. For the Pro the plate is thicker than the Delta Point 2, so you lose co-witness of the sight.
You can usually get the red dot sights on some sort of deals online like Optics Planet or Amazon and save some bucks vs. MSR.
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dmiyak
Member
I have an email from Leupold that states that the DP Pro will not cowitness. So if that's important to someone, the DP Pro is not an option, assuming the info the sent me is correct. We'll see when it comes out. I opted for the original DP, which are still available and it cowitnesses fine. Also, I personally don't find the iron sights distracting at all. I don't even notice them when using the dot/triangle.
For close up and personal a bigger MOA is easier and faster to acquire. For longer distance a smaller MOA obscures less of the target.
A good compromise is the triangle where you use the tip for long range work and the center for closer or rapid acquisition shots. So once you get it dialed in it it can act as a bullet drop compensator. Colors are what works best with your eyes but some tritium colors last longer than others. Tritium is a radioactive isotope and has a half-life of 10-12 years.
Jeffro57
Member
Vortex Razor red dot. YMMV
14indy, I got the 3 MOA RMR 06 and I am happy with that. I wanted to be able to have some fun with 50 yd + shots at the range with my .40. Even with the 3 MOA it is starting to obscure the target beyond that. And the 3 MOA is fine for me up close.
Fishinfool
Member
On the Tritium powered Trijicon sights, what is the useful illumination life of the tritium element? Will Trijicon replace it when it fails? If not, what happens too your $400+ sight when the tritium fails?
That has been the drawback that has kept me away from this style of sight. It is a little easier to swallow in $100 regular fixed handgun sights.
Larry
That has been the drawback that has kept me away from this style of sight. It is a little easier to swallow in $100 regular fixed handgun sights.
Larry
If your not in to big of a hurry, Vortex is coming out with 2 new red dots and the new Viper will fit the CORE system. But it will be mid/late summer before it is available to the public. Vortex Optics - Viper Red Dot
The tritium should be good for at least ten years and by that time I expect there will be some super sight on the market that connects to your iPhone or Google Glass or something.
