Reduced Recoil .44 Magnum

[cp1969]

flop-shank, I'm one who hasn't yet bought into the 'energy transfer' theory and when you don't buy into that, the whole bullet expansion thing kind of seems like a side issue. Knives and arrows transfer very little energy but have caused a lot of fatal wounds. Someone pointed out recently that a hot bath transfers more energy to you than a knife, but very little damage.

Stating the very obvious here, but bullets kill by damaging vital stuff inside. Some of that can be located on the far side of the target. I don't want a bullet stopping short of that--I want it to go all the way through. Doesn't matter to me if it still had kinetic energy to spare after accomplishing that.

Now I might whistle a different tune if I had to shoot someone with a loved one standing right behind them, but I don't. In fact, I don't even keep a loaded gun in the house and to date all of my shooting has consisted of hunting and plinking. Shooting people has never been a concern or a very likely thing to happen as I don't carry a gun, either. But in hunting, I definitely do not want the bullet stopping inside. It makes tracking too difficult.

 

[flop-shank]

flop-shank, I'm one who hasn't yet bought into the 'energy transfer' theory and when you don't buy into that, the whole bullet expansion thing kind of seems like a side issue.

Go to Youtube and watch Kennedy's head blow apart. Grizzly yes, but tissue torn that the bullet never touched. Yes, I know that was a rifle and we're talking handguns here. However, I run a screaming hot handload in my .44 mag. and I've shot a woodchuck through the head (which disintegrated) and two others through the body (the first one had a 5" tear for an exit wound and it's stomach, spleen and a large part of it's colon were blown out of the exit wound) and saw serious tissue damage that was done by energy. There was damaged tissue that the bullet never touched. So it stands to reason that as cartridges become more powerful, even from handguns, there's a greater likelyhood that their energy will play a part in stopping power. At the same time, I'm not saying that shot placement isn't paramount. It most certainly is.

In a podcast at Proarms Podcast , Keith Jones, a veteran cop who has used gunfire to win four deadly force encounters, talks about how when his agency switched from .38+P to .357 magnum they had to shoot perps fewer times to get them to cease their hostilities, yet more of those shot with the .357 survived their wounds to be stood in front of a judge. Obviously something more than tissue damage was at play.

Knives and arrows transfer very little energy but have caused a lot of fatal wounds.

That's because they poke holes. The ability to stop and the ability to kill are two different things. On the flip side Mike Tyson's fist ha s locked a lot of people up and layed them out flat on the canvas without any penetration whatsoever. If energy wasn't causing the stop, what was?

Someone pointed out recently that a hot bath transfers more energy to you than a knife, but very little damage.

I don't mean to be rude, but give me a break.

Stating the very obvious here, but bullets kill by damaging vital stuff inside. Some of that can be located on the far side of the target. I don't want a bullet stopping short of that--I want it to go all the way through.

Generally 12"-14" penetration will reach the vital stuff.

Now I might whistle a different tune if I had to shoot someone with a loved one standing right behind them, but I don't.

I can't forsee the future and I'm very concerned about the innocent family that might be standing behind a perp in a gas station, or on a sidewalk.

In fact, I don't even keep a loaded gun in the house and to date all of my shooting has consisted of hunting and plinking. Shooting people has never been a concern or a very likely thing to happen as I don't carry a gun, either. But in hunting, I definitely do not want the bullet stopping inside. It makes tracking too difficult.

Shooting to kill a game animal and shooting to stop a violent criminal are two different things and require different bullet performance. Your thinking is spot on for hunting. If I were hunting, I would look no further than the tried and proven SWC.

 

[brokenprism]

Well... until I get set up for reloading, I'll carry the Remington 240 @ 1180 fps. It's one of the widest hollow points I've ever seen -- like the Speer flying ashtray. I like the scalloped jacket and soft lead too.

 

[flop-shank]

bp, do a search, if you haven't, and check out the thread Perma-Gel Test Results here in the ammo forum. I've tested the Remington 240 gr. SJHP. I think you'll find it interesting.

 

[millbilly]

I shoot a lot of remington 180 grain JSP.....seems to shoot very well and the last deer i shot with it fell in a pile.....

 

[ExplorerOne]

I carry a 44 Special revolver when I carry a revolver, have do hesitation about the ammo. Just find a decent hollow point. The larger hole (over a 38) gives you a head start IMHO.

 

[flop-shank]

I shoot a lot of remington 180 grain JSP.....seems to shoot very well and the last deer i shot with it fell in a pile.....

That's a nuts hot load! It really impressed me when I shot it.

 

[robocop10mm]

Pro Load made a 200 Gr "Tactical Lite" load with the Speer Gold Dot bullet at 1000fps. It shoots pretty sweet.

 

[44forever]

Georgia Arms, I believe,

offers a 240 grain lead SWC at about 1100 fps. They shoot well and are very controlable with practice, decent prices too.

 

[brokenprism]

Pro Load made a 200 Gr "Tactical Lite" load with the Speer Gold Dot bullet at 1000fps. It shoots pretty sweet.

"Made"? I see Pro-Load doesn't offer this any more.

I think the Speer 200 gr short barrel magnum load is probably the equivalent of what you mentioned.

 

[robocop10mm]

I have not been able to get anything from Pro Load lately. I bought a few boxes of the Tactical Lite load several years ago. I still have 40 rounds. Talk about gaping hollow point!!!

 

[notch]

Do a search on Elmer Kieth and his experiances with the "44Mag"
I have a Ruger 44carbine and recently a Ruger RedHawk 7 1/2 inch barrel I bought because I really can't use the lead reloads in the carbine very well. Can't wait to set the Ruger RH with a crono.
Notch

 

[fixitfred]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll look into the Lee Turret (and outdoormarksman, thanks!). I like hobbies, and reloading sounds like a good combination of detailed work and rewarding outcome. I've been looking at powders, brass, and bullets, and I'm sure I can do better than $26 - 36 for 20 rds of anything.

It sounds like you may have talked yourself into reloading. Once you make the decision the rest is easy, well not really but you know what I mean. Everybody and their brother will have a different opinion on equipment. My brother gave me a Rock Chucker to replace my lost Rock Chucker but I recomend a Dillon BL 550. They run ads in the American Hunter next to the viagra ads. It runs about $250 and if you get it I'm sure in time you will agree it's the best twofitty you ever spent. It's a solid quality machine and upgradable to an RL 550b full progressive.

Especially with 44 mag ammo you will recoup your cost in no time. Factory will run you about a buck a round. Let's break down cost aside from the equipment.

Brass (reusable) and initial cost somewhere 10¢ to 50¢ a piece.

Primers run about 3¢ a piece

Bullets vary but I use Hi-Tek coated bayou about 11¢ I have some jacketed I think I paid 20¢

The powder varies by load but 10¢ is a conservative est.

Using the brass about 10x means you pay less than 30¢ a round customized to your specifications and needs.

Once you zero in on what you like and hard core shopping and buying in bulk and you will wonder why you didn't start reloading sooner.

 

[chaparrito]

I doubt very much I have over 400 bucks invested in my Lee turret press including dies for .44, .45ACP and 9mm. It paid for itself in less than a year. I only recently (~a year ago) started loading for my 6 inch 629-1. It's for fun only, targets and plinking. I doubt I'll ever hunt with it or carry it. I initially thought of loading .44spec's but didn't want to mess with the carbon ring they'd cause in the cylinder. A gunsmith shooting pal gave me a half dozen of his reloads one day and said "try these". They're essentially .44 spec loads in magnum brass and are a dream to shoot. I can shoot a hundred of them painlessly. It's a 200gn round nose flat point lead bullet I buy from a local caster over 9 grains of Unique powder. I don't know what the FPS is and don't care. They go where I point them and are pretty clean. I am looking at scopes for the gun now and thinking about longer distance targets so I'm pretty sure I'll eventually have to start experimenting with better loads, but for now this one is a sweetie.

 

[gwpercle]

Shooting 44 specials in a 44 magnum will not hurt a darn thing if you want light loads.
Same goes for 38 specials in a 357 magnum. I've been doing it since 1967 in a Ruger Blackhawk. Cleaning the gun takes care of any residue.
Don't believe the "horror stories" you read on the net......some folks like to talk about things they have no real knowledge of and experience with.
Gary

 

[Pointblank2U]

A word about the Specials-in-a-Magnum-chamber bugaboo.

I have been hearing horror stories about how this will ruin a chamber for 45 years, and the whole time I have merrily shot .22 Shorts in LR chambers, .38 Specials in .357 chambers, .44 Specials in .44 Magnum chambers, all with nary a problem. Yes, after a lot of shooting carbon and lube can build up and form a ring of gunk inside the chamber -- but it can be cleaned out with minimal fuss, as long as you don't wait years and thousands of rounds between cleanings. Buy some decent .44 Specials for your 629, clean it regularly, and quit fretting.

Good advice. That's what I do. I use hot .44 Specials.

 

[Kid44]

A word about the Specials-in-a-Magnum-chamber bugaboo.

I have been hearing horror stories about how this will ruin a chamber for 45 years, and the whole time I have merrily shot .22 Shorts in LR chambers, .38 Specials in .357 chambers, .44 Specials in .44 Magnum chambers, all with nary a problem. Yes, after a lot of shooting carbon and lube can build up and form a ring of gunk inside the chamber -- but it can be cleaned out with minimal fuss, as long as you don't wait years and thousands of rounds between cleanings. Buy some decent .44 Specials for your 629, clean it regularly,
and quit fretting.

Yes, no fretters allowed here.

 

[old 1911 fan]

Go ahead and start with a lee Loader. Many of us did! A lead bullet at 900 fps in your .44 will work for a lot. And cheap too. Don't worry about expansion. A .44 goes in at what you hope your .30 cal. will expand too!

old 1911 fan

 

[2hawk]

Anyone notice this thread is 5 years old?

 

[fixitfred]

Some Things Are Timeless

Anyone notice this thread is 5 years old?

Yea I just did.