Reloading 45-70 for the Browning 1886?

[SLT223]

I was fortunate enough to find one of these rifles for sale in my back yard, and picked it up yesterday. My Lyman #49 manual shows a load of 31-34.5gr IMR 4227 under a 400gr cast slug. Since I have about 8# of this powder I was wondering if anyone can give me some feed back on the performance of this load?

And here's the rifle
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/403170-picked-up-browning-1886-yesterday.html#post138218375

 

[Neumann]

IMR 4227 is a little fast for .45-70 400grn. I use Varget with an heavier load (within Lyman #59 guidelines for a levergun). You can probably trust Lyman listings, but you might get better results from a 300 grn or 350 grn bullet.

I have about 4# of 4227, but haven't tried it yet. If someone has personal experience, I'm interested too.

 

[venomballistics]

4227 is what I use for a mild load in 45-70 (if there really can be such a thing) My primary propellants for my 1895 are 3031 and RL7.
you, loading for a highwall, puts you into the big boy modern rifle class along side the ruger #1, where you can get some extra heat out of that 4227.

well I need to toss in a correction, you'er in the same pressure category as me with that particular gun.
Decided to take a look at your score thread

 

[retired_diver]

the Lyman Cast bullet handbook #4 has the same loadings for 4227, just for your info. Which has vel. from 1481 to 1597 listed.
I use IMR4198 and IMR 3031 for my marlin 1895 in 45-70. I have been shooting Missouri bullets 405 coated bullets.

 

[fredj338]

I have used pistol powders like 4227, 2400 even unique for light 45-70 loads, but something like 3031 is a better fit. If you have it, use it, just follow the data. Things can get away from you quickly with pistol powders in rifle calibers.btw, I love my 1886, a terrific shooting rifle with lead bullets.

 

[glowe]

That is a great rifle and a powerful caliber. One thing you can not do is take someone else's reloading recipe and assume accuracy in your rifle. Getting maximum accuracy is finding the best load for your specific rifle. You will need to experiment with bullet weight, bullet shape, and powder. My experience with this caliber has been both frustrating and satisfying, and can take some time to get your MOA down to a decent size.

I would agree that 3031 is the most popular powder for 45-70 and would start loading with it if you can find some. Load up several combinations and get to the range to find the most accurate load for your rifle. Some guns get better accuracy with black powder, while others do well with spitzer bullets and the combinations seem endless, but the adventure is great fun.

 

[Sprefix]

My Browning SRC loves these.........405gr. cast and some H4895. These have some moxie!!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You can use 4227 for the 45-70 even though it's considered a little fast these days. Why not load up a few rounds and see how they run in your rifle?

I prefer 4198 or AA5744 in the 45-70 but I have use a lot of different handgun/shotgun powders in the past, even as fast as Red Dot.

 

[Nick B]

Long time 45-70 shooter here . what 400 grain bullet are you going to use ? With that 26" barrel you're going to need a bullet that carries a lot of lube. Quality lube not that crayon stuff .

 

[SLT223]

Long time 45-70 shooter here . what 400 grain bullet are you going to use ? With that 26" barrel you're going to need a bullet that carries a lot of lube. Quality lube not that crayon stuff .

Actually, I was thinking of trying coated from Missouri Bullets, both their 300gr and 405gr.

Missouri Bullet Company

Any reason to stay away from these?

Big thanks to everyone who has responded. I really appreciate all the input.

 

[Nick B]

Actually, I was thinking of trying coated from Missouri Bullets, both their 300gr and 405gr.

Missouri Bullet Company

Any reason to stay away from these?

Big thanks to everyone who has responded. I really appreciate all the input.

I've never tried a coated rifle bullet so I can't give you any input on them .
I shoot a Browning BPCR and a Shiloh Sharps. Both have a 30" barrel and I cast my own bullets and lube them with LBT Blue Soft .
I get a nice grease ring on the outside of the muzzle/crown area after a few rounds which tells me the grease is holding up all the way to the end of the barrel . Never any leading .

 

[fredj338]

Coated should be fine, not really needed for 45-70 vel to 1600fps or so. This is my LHP hunting bullet.

 

[venomballistics]

Actually, I was thinking of trying coated from Missouri Bullets, both their 300gr and 405gr.

Missouri Bullet Company

Any reason to stay away from these?

Big thanks to everyone who has responded. I really appreciate all the input.

theres more reason to stay with them than away from them.
it's the full plastic jacket with a dash of magic to solve problems it just shouldn't.

and unlike jacketed, or plated, coated lends itself to DIY with its low buck entry points.

 

[SLT223]

One more question: What dies are you all using for 45-70? I was planning to get them from Dillon since that's the equipment I'm using, but I'm not seeing 45-70 dies on their site. I'm not familiar with other manufacturers, but it looks like I'm going to have to stray off the reservation here.

 

[venomballistics]

Im running with RCBS.
In fact, fate would have it, its all I use with the exception of a few lee sets for some oddballs. and a few special function dies I lathe turned.
You might look into the Lyman M die for playing with lead, but other than that nearly anything is fine.
What you need to watch out for with the 45-70 is the Hornady Leverevolution brass, which tends to be a bit shorter than standard offerings. That'll bust your moxie more than anything else.

 

[fredj338]

One more question: What dies are you all using for 45-70? I was planning to get them from Dillon since that's the equipment I'm using, but I'm not seeing 45-70 dies on their site. I'm not familiar with other manufacturers, but it looks like I'm going to have to stray off the reservation here.

Any 7/8" des will work. I am using RCBS too.

 

[Aticus]

Try Triple 7 2fg behind that 400 gr lead. As I remember I used about 55 grs BUT make sure. Load enough to touch the base of the bullet with just a very slight compression of the powder. Standard LR primers seemed to work just fine and I got about 1400 fps out of a Winchester '86 chambered for 45-90. Lot of fun and very impressive also.

If you want to use 4227 try to keep the bullets up. I had some ignition problems with the small charges.

 

[glowe]

One more question: What dies are you all using for 45-70?

Personally, I do not think it makes any difference which die set you choose. This is a low velocity cartridge that will kick your butt over 1600 fps and easy to size and load.

The only thing I would ask that you try is to seat the bullet so it sets into the rifling when chambered. Take a brass case with spent primer and no powder and load it until you feel resistance when you chamber the round. Remove the cartridge and make sure there are rifling marks on the end of the bullet. Lock down your seating die at that point and try them at the range. I found this to be one of the most important operations to gain the best performance from a 45-70 rifle.

 

[venomballistics]

Personally, I do not think it makes any difference which die set you choose. This is a low velocity cartridge that will kick your butt over 1600 fps and easy to size and load.

The only thing I would ask that you try is to seat the bullet so it sets into the rifling when chambered. Take a brass case with spent primer and no powder and load it until you feel resistance when you chamber the round. Remove the cartridge and make sure there are rifling marks on the end of the bullet. Lock down your seating die at that point and try them at the range. I found this to be one of the most important operations to gain the best performance from a 45-70 rifle.

largely true, however if, for any reason your stuck with leverevolution brass, you may find the seat and crimp die a tickle and a half long to reach the case mouth to roll that crimp in. ... I ended up dusting a few tenths off mine to deal with this.

now the OAL of a lever action is dictated more by what the action can deal with than what fits the chamber.

Become well versed in the dissasembly and reassembly of your rifle prior to setting up for your max OAL.
Its a real live monster to get a cartridge out when its hanging up in the action because the bullet won't quite clear the mag.
If you play here, it will happen.

 

[rburg]

I know this far into the thread someone (a jerk) like me will ask an obvious question. What are you planning on shooting? It really can make a difference in load recommendations. For plinking and making holes in paper, there really is no reason to push the limits on pressure or making your shoulder wish you'd brought along a .22. Even for punching holes through a deer or other small critter, really light loads work just fine. Even starting level loads for any powder are something to consider. Another all important question is how much do you plan on shooting. Some guys just haul out the heavy artillery for a few shots, then put it away. Others want an hour or two of blasting away, sometimes firing 50 or 100 shots. If this second idea, I'd drop loads way down and only use the lightest of bullets.

Even 1300 or so FPS and a 300 grain bullet wil shoot clear through most deer. If you go to 1400 and 405 bullets, it will break nearly every bone in its poor little body. And then hole the tree he was standing in front of.

In my ill spent youth we used to shoot at a Buick, a really old porthole version. It was 1000 yards away, and factory 405s would punch right on through unless you hit the motor (straight 8). Its a lot of power. Lucky for you, the 1886 in the rifle length isn't the feather weight version. You'll learn that if you decide to take it hunting and lug it for 10 or so miles.